Okay, I'll open the can of worms: it's impossible to rationalize religion given what we know about its origins. Religion is faith-based, and being faithful =/= being rational.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

You are right that religion is not "based" on reason, but is based on faith. However, one can have faith without violating their rationality. For example, Christian apologists will give certain "evidences" of their faith based on philosophical observations, and while these do not prove anything for certain they do demonstrate some rationality behind the whole thing. Also, the same apologists will counter attacks from atheists and explain how rational proofs can be upheld while their beliefs can still fit into that reality

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It's possible to put a lot of religious ideas into a rational framework. For instance, I'm sure most everyone agrees that it's good to avoid the 7 deadly sins, atheists and religious people alike. Nothing irrational about that. But there are also a lot of religious ideas from the bible and other sources that are now almost universally considered to be outdated. When religious people are confronted with these incongruous ideas, they tend to either ignore them completely or they suddenly try to downplay the importance of rationalization in their faith. This is the point when they start to violate their rationality for their religion. I think consistency is key when it comes to rationalization. You see in scientists all the time a willingness to cherry-pick data that supports their hypothesis and ignore all contradictory evidence. For something to be rationalized, all evidence must support it, not just some.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It's interesting, because whatever the truth is, it is the truth and has nothing to hide. Either there is a God or there isn't, yet both camps must play to their strengths and skirt the "tough questions" because both sides do indeed have difficulties explaining their worldview. Theism or atheism: one of them must be true, the other must be false, but no one alive knows the answer for sure because, lets face it, the evidence is ambiguous. What a great mystery life is

by Anonymous 12 years ago

"Either there is a God or there isn't." Well strictly speaking that's not at all true. There could be multiple Gods or Goddesses, or a single God unlike the one of the three Abrahamic Religions.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Also there's deism so let's not forget that. And Pantheism. I agree with your sentiment about being unable to know the truth for certain, but with over 6,000 religions on the planet anyone could be right. Or they could all be wrong.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That point is still consistent with my statement. I wasn't speaking strictly from a Christian or Abrahamic faith. When I said either there is a God or there isn't, what I meant was the world is either totally naturalistic or contains some supernatural forces. I guess I should have replaced "a God" with "spiritual reality" or something "all inclusive" like that. I should have been more clear

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Ehhh still untrue lol. Theoretically speaking, there could be an advanced life form that used technology to spawn our universe (would you call this living and breathing extraterrestrial, God?), or this could be a simulated reality in which we are simply data and not biological organisms at all. And yes please, you cant go wrong with being all inclusive, because it's a bit irksome when people simply focus on the Abrahamic faiths when they are not the most interesting nor the oldest religions.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Even in your scenario of our world being a product of some other world, that would be a naturalistic cause. Just in the same way that our own computers are not a "supernatural" process but a totally naturalistic innovative cause. And the "alien" world that you theorize would also necessarily be caused either supernaturally or through natural explanations in its own right

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Faith is not the opposite of reason. You can have faith in a person or political system. Faith just means you believe something without lots of tangible evidence. It doesn't mean you believe in something completely irrational or illogical.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Nor should it be completely ignored. People suspecting Christians of being arrogant and irrational is comparable to people suspecting Muslims of being terrorists and extremists. Obviously, the majority of them aren't that way, but it's Christians (and extremists from other religions) that are homophobic and Muslims that are terrorists. There's a direct relation that, while not applying to the majority of their respective religious followers, is indeed present.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

true. So people should attack the certain ideologies they disagree with, which will create opponents who disagree on those points. But people I talk to, atheists in particular, love to clump all religious people together as stupid, ignorant, and backward people

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Right, and I'm undoubtedly guilty of that. However, generally when you see an atheist hating on Christians, prefixing "Christian" with "fundamentalist" is what they actually meant.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

You can understand how this misuse of terms can be offensive for many Christians who are very much like you and me in their ideologies. Thanks for your humility and your response. Interesting side note: I attend a Christian college. Homosexuality is a very controversial issue. If you ask individuals most would sympathize with gay rights, treat homosexuals equally and with respect, and generally be much like outsiders on the issue. The controversy comes from inside the Bible, which obviously believers take seriously. Any honest Biblical student could not deny that homosexuality is a sin, even though most would concede that it is not a choice but something people are naturally inclined to. I think there is a major internal conflict for such students, who WANT to believe certain things but are FORCED to believe other things if they want to be honest with their faith. The solution many of them have: To "love the sinner and hate the sin". I know many people don't like this phrase, but this is the best that well meaning students can do to reconcile their sympathies with their (very ingrained) faiths

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It's also possible to believe in a higher power/powers without being religious whatsoever.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Kind of like deism, where you believe that there is some unknown spiritual force or cause of reality, but one which remains distant to the creation and of which we have no obligation to?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That, or simply acknowledging the existence of any god at all and still disagreeing with the doctrine involved. Likewise, one can engage in religion (like atheistic Buddhists) with no deity involvement.

by Anonymous 12 years ago