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The terms "pro life" and "pro choice" are ridiculous, you'd have to be suicidal to not be pro life and who really doesn't want choice? They're just stupid euphemisms to make each side sound better, amirite?

Top Comment

I agree with this, but what else can you say? While "anti-abortion" suits "pro-lifers", what do "pro-choicers" get? Pro-abortion? That kind of makes it sound like they're endorsing getting abortions, but many see it as a last resort.

+10101 See / Add Replies

Chou

Comments

Right, but what else would you call it? Aborters and Non-Aborters?

+33 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “Right, but what else would you call it?...

Pro abortion. Anti abortion.

+10122 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “Pro abortion. Anti abortion.

People who don't care about the mother or baby vs. People who don't care about the baby vs. People who don't care about the mother.

+121 Reply

StickCaveman StickCaveman

In response to “Right, but what else would you call it?...

"Aborters" doesn't work because it implies we encourage abortions rather than just saying it's an option.

+66 Reply

personThingy

In response to “"Aborters" doesn't work because it...

Exactly. That's why I don't entirely agree with this. Most ways you spin it, it makes people who are pro-choice sound like the "bad guys."

0 Reply

Anonymous

I agree with this, but what else can you say? While "anti-abortion" suits "pro-lifers", what do "pro-choicers" get? Pro-abortion? That kind of makes it sound like they're endorsing getting abortions, but many see it as a last resort.

+10101 Reply

Chou

They do make their side sound better, but I don't think think that makes them stupid or incorrect. In fact, the terms pretty much sum up the argument for each side. Pro-life people see themselves as protecting the life/rights of the babies. Pro-choice people believe that they are giving the mother autonomy over their body.

I do, however, think their should be some in between stance that argues abortion should be allowed only in cases where the mother's life is threatened. I don't want to completely restrict abortion, but I don't think it should be completely the mother's choice either.

022 Reply

BP032 BP032

In response to “They do make their side sound better, but I...

Some (if not many) pro-choicers believe that legalized abortion protects the lives of mothers.

Now what?

0 Reply

a_fetus a_fetus

In response to “They do make their side sound better, but I...

So if this baby needs its mother to suffer in order to survive, then the mother should be required to go through with it except for special circumstances. By that logic, if someone else needs your kidney or something to survive, you should be required by law to give it to them, correct? Either way you're damaging your own body to save someone else's life.

-11 Reply

personThingy

In response to “So if this baby needs its mother to suffer in...

Aggggghhhhhhh, I hate when people say things like this. Do you honestly think that women are incompetent when it comes to giving birth? Do you honestly think that an abortion is a safe, risk-free alternative to pregnancy?

If the person that needed my kidney was my child, yes I would give it to them. Not because I was obligated by law, but by my own moral conscious. However, no, I would not owe the other person my kidney because them requiring my kidney was not a choice that I made. Getting pregnant isn't spontaneous. It isn't magic. It isn't unpredictable. If I made the choice to have sex, I made the choice to give my body to my potential child if the situation were to arise.

0 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “Aggggghhhhhhh, I hate when people say things...

What you think are the implications of having sex should not affect the law.

If I knew someone who needed a kidney, I would probably give it to them. If I was a woman and I was pregnant, I might not get an abortion. In both cases, that would be my choice (hence the term pro-choice). Since I am not a woman, I will never make that choice, and since I am one person, I will definitely not make that choice for everyone. You seem to think you can.

011 Reply

personThingy

In response to “What you think are the implications of having...

Actually, I was just referring to how your analogy is inaccurate. A person isn't responsible for everyone else's well-being, but they are responsible for the choices that they make. I think it's more comparable to if I somehow stole someone else's kidney and they need mine to replace it, because in this situation I actually am implicated in their well-being due to a choice that I made.

0 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “Actually, I was just referring to how your...

If you stole someone's kidney, you harmed them. You have wronged them, and righting that wrong is only what a decent person is expected to do. If you got pregnant, you didn't harm the sperm and egg. You had sex, and as a result the 2 cells combined into one and began to multiply. Unless you're suggesting that getting pregnant is a sin, giving birth is a good thing to do, not an expectation.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “If you stole someone's kidney, you harmed...

If you're pregnant giving birth IS the expected thing to do. That biology 101. And if I stole someone's kidney, I cause them the need for another one. If I got pregnant, I would cause the fetus to need my help. They were both results of my actions. And getting pregnant is not a sin. No pro-life person would ever say that getting pregnant is a sin.

+11 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “If you're pregnant giving birth IS the...

I don't mean biologically expected, I mean morally expected.
Stealing someone's kidney is a sin, so giving them a replacement is an expectation. Giving someone a kidney without stealing one is a good deed, done out of the kindness of your heart, not because it's the law.
Killing someone is a sin, so sparing them is an expectation. Giving birth to someone is a good deed, done out of the kindness of your heart, and should not be the law.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “I don't mean biologically expected, I mean...

But not giving birth to them is killing, and the reason that they expect to live is because of the actions of the mother and father. The child didn't force itself into the mother. So bringing it to life and then destroying it is unfair.

+11 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “But not giving birth to them is killing, and...

Conception doesn't bring anything to life. Cells are alive too. The sperm and egg which came together were both alive. The stem cells they came from were alive. The embryonic cells they descended from were alive. The sperm and egg which came together to make that embryo were alive.
Based on how we treat other living things, there is no reason to treat a fetus's life as equal to our own except because of your own personal opinion.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “Conception doesn't bring anything to life...

The difference between these other things is that they do not have all the ingredients of life on their own. Through conception, a unique being is brought into existence.

0 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “The difference between these other things is...

If a living cell doesn't have the ingredients of life, then a cupcake doesn't have all the ingredients of cake. A cell grows, consumes energy, reproduces, and dies. If you believe that something magical happens through conception, that is your belief, and I have no right to challenge it. Just don't go around thinking that everyone else's beliefs are barbaric and should be outlawed.

011 Reply

personThingy

In response to “If a living cell doesn't have the ingredients...

ALL the ingredients for HUMAN life. A sperm only has 50%, and egg only has 50%. Together, they have 100%. I don't think it's magical, I think it's basic science.

But whatever, to each his own.

+22 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “ALL the ingredients for HUMAN life. A sperm...

"To each his own"

That completely contradicts pro-life, but it works for me.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “So if this baby needs its mother to suffer in...

Giving an organ has permanent if not fatal effects on the donor, while most mothers have a complete recovery from pregnancy. Here's a better example. I think if a dying man were to enter your home, you should be required by law to take care of him until he is safe, no matter how much it inconveniences you, unless such care threatens your own life.

0 Reply

BP032 BP032

In response to “Giving an organ has permanent if not fatal...

Of course, the effects of having a child aren't permanent, they only last NINETEEN YEARS!

Also, giving birth is considered one of the most painful things a person can go through, and taking care of a dying man is only somewhat inconvenient.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “Of course, the effects of having a child...

If they don't want to commit to nineteen years, then they could put the child up for adoption. Also, I do realize realize that giving birth is very painful, but I do not think that pain justifies taking a child's life. Do you?

0 Reply

BP032 BP032

In response to “If they don't want to commit to nineteen...

Right, that's what this world needs. More orphans.
And no, I don't think the pain justifies taking a child's life (although I've never given birth so that means nothing), but it does justify taking a fetus's life.
Animals have been killed for causing less pain that childbirth, or even because their fur looks cool. Why should fetuses get better treatment than organisms with feelings?

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “Right, that's what this world needs. More...

Your entire argument here rests upon the difference between a baby and a fetus. What is different between a baby in the womb a day before it is born and the baby right after it comes out? Is it not just a matter of location? I don't see a significant difference between them. But somehow you say one of them warrants life and the other is the equivalent of a tumor.
Also, you act like it is an horrible to be an orphan. Go ask an orphan if he wants to live. I bet he'll say that his life is worth living - even as an orphan.

0 Reply

BP032 BP032

In response to “Your entire argument here rests upon the...

The difference is, one has a consciousness. One has developed the ability to feel physical and emotional pain. The other hasn't. The difference between a baby and a fetus is the difference betwen a human and a tree, minus the DNA difference. It's still a significant difference. (Besides, nobody's talking about right before it's born)
I'm not saying that an orphan's life is completely terrible, and that they want to die. We're not talking about killing orphans; we're talking about preventing them from ever existing. I'm not saying it's way better to abort them, but nobody benefits from a large increase in orphans just because a few people think it's the right thing to do.

-11 Reply

personThingy

In response to “The difference is, one has a consciousness...

Uh I'm pretty sure that a foetus has just as much consciousness as anyone else. After it has a functional central nervous system that can facilitate this, of course. The difference between a baby and a foetus is time for development, nothing more. Location is secondary. Pregnancy is meant to last some 40 weeks but some babies are born as early as 23 weeks and some as late as 42. What makes a 23-week-old foetus less conscious than a 23-week preemie? Contact with air? The cessation of an immediate dependence on the mother? The compartmental fluid redistribution that occurs after birth? I don't think any of these actually affect consciousness in any way, and yet they all occur in the process of childbirth.

Consequently, the difference between a human and a tree is the DNA difference. But whatever.

-112 Reply

dzmax

In response to “Uh I'm pretty sure that a foetus has just as...

You're making no sense.
Wikipedia defines consciousness as "the relationship between the mind and the world with which it interacts." A fetus doesn't have any knowledge of the world, nor does it have anything to interact with. The event you forgot to mention that occurs in childbirth is the baby is born. It is delivered into the world, opens its eyes, and begins to think and make connections between the mind and the world. At that point, it becomes a sentient life form with feelings, and to kill one would be a terrible crime. Until then, it is a part of a woman's body, and she has the right to remove it if she chooses.
Consciousness is not a quantitative variable. Either it has a consciousness or it doesn't. A person does. A fetus doesn't.

011 Reply

personThingy

In response to “You're making no sense. Wikipedia defines...

I'm making plenty of sense; you're just not understanding.

If a foetus were a part of a woman's body, they would have identical DNA. And if you're going to use Wikipedia's definition of consciousness, you need to appreciate that "the world with which it interacts" doesn't strictly have to mean the world we interact with; the foetus is in a world of its own for the duration of the pregnancy. Foetuses surely have feelings too; feelings wouldn't be conferred upon a foetus just because of its rite of passage through the ****.

-11 Reply

dzmax

In response to “I'm making plenty of sense; you're just not...

I understand what you're saying. I understand the words "Jewish people should be sent to concentration camps." That doesn't mean they're accurate.

"Foetuses surely have feelings"
If you're so sure of this, prove it. It seems incredibly unlikely if you ask me.
A tree isn't in a world of its own; it's in the same world as us. That doesn't mean it is sentient (If you have any desire to win this argument, don't try to argue that a tree is sentient).
Fine, it's not part of a woman's body. Neither is a tapeworm.

+11 Reply

personThingy

In response to “I understand what you're saying. I understand...

God why does everything have to be an argument with some people? Maybe if you were a bit more enlightened, you wouldn't have to concern yourself so much with trying to tell me what points I should and should not be trying to make. Your comparisons are also rather flawed, because you're trying to compare something I said with something incomparable.

Life has a certain spark that you can't recreate; though we might say that a person was born or died at a particular time, these are merely for official records, and nobody can really say with any specificity what time that spark actually started being or when it really went out. We associate a beating heart with life, but actually you don't need a beating heart to be alive. CPR can do that for you, as can a mechanical device. If you say that birth is when someone has feelings, and not the moment at which that spark comes to be, then you'd have to define that moment. Good luck.

-11 Reply

dzmax

In response to “God why does everything have to be an...

You're right, you don't need a beating heart to be alive. Bacteria are alive as well. As I explained earlier in the thread, a person is technically alive long before conception. All cells come from pre-existing cells, so this "spark" when something becomes alive doesn't really occur. Whether or not something is alive is irrelevant. We do not treat other humans the way we treat spiders, but both are alive.
Yes, birth is the moment I specified earlier. Birth does not take place any earlier than when the baby is born. That has already been defined. If you say that birth is any earlier or later than the moment a mother gives birth, then you need the good luck more than I do.
Not everything has to be an argument, but an argument does. You're the one who decided to continue this thread. Now, if you would like to explain why my comparisons are flawed, you know where the reply button is. Otherwise you're just wasting my time.

+11 Reply

personThingy

In response to “You're right, you don't need a beating heart...

No, I'm just telling you that you are wrong - because you are. You're so knee-deep in your own 'arguments' that you can't even see how bad they are, and you're missing my point - as usual.

The ambiguity of the spark is meant to show how fluid these 'defining moments' of birth and death are; you can't say that birth is the time that something is alive because a foetus can exist outside the womb after 23 weeks, and at this point it is called a baby just because it is no longer attached to its mother. A number of physiological changes occur when the baby is 'born', but the way the brain works isn't one of those changes; the baby/foetus is still able to process sensory inputs and derive from them what you or I would at the most basic of levels. The only real difference, other than age, is that memories influence perception and everything else that follows on from that.

Consciousness doesn't just mean whatever you think it means. Simply, it means to be alive - in the truest of senses. You can define it with all these fancy words that detract from that true meaning, but making up your own definitions doesn't change the true meaning of what it is to be what it is.

-11 Reply

dzmax

In response to “No, I'm just telling you that you are wrong -...

Consciousness means to be alive? Well then, I guess I shouldn't wash my hands ever again so I don't kill millions of sentient life forms. If you want to follow that advice, then be my guest. Also, I didn't make up that definition. Wikipedia did, and even they based it on another source.
I just said, birth isn't being alive. Trees aren't born, but they are alive. Even humans were alive long before they were born. I never said a fetus wasn't alive; I just said its life is not equal to a person's life.
The body doesn't change when one is born. The fetus looks like a baby several months before it's born. The brain works the same, too, but it doesn't have anything to process, so being born and opening your eyes for the first time is a very significant change. Why is 'born' in quotes? Birth is defined as when a mammal exits its mother's womb. There's no other way to define it.
Yes, memories influence perception. If you don't remember what it's like to be alive, you're not going to miss it, and you're not going to fear losing it. If a fetus is conscious, then what exactly do you think it's thinking about in the womb? How does it feel?

+11 Reply

personThingy

In response to “No, I'm just telling you that you are wrong -...

You're intentionally taking everything I'm saying out of context. Foetuses' brains process sensory inputs too...

011 Reply

dzmax

In response to “You're intentionally taking everything I'm...

Fetus's brains may be able to process sensory inputs, but they have no inputs to process.
No, I'm not taking everything you say out of context. I'm interpreting it literally based on the words you use. When a woman bears a child, that child is born. That's what birth is. How can you say it means anything else? As for consciousness, the definition I used is from Wikipedia, which got it from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. If I misinterpreted anything, then please feel free to tell me how I should have interpreted it.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “Fetus's brains may be able to process sensory...

There is plenty of sensory input in the womb; the inside of a woman's **** isn't a vacuum.

-11 Reply

dzmax

In response to “There is plenty of sensory input in the womb;...

Because babies grow in ****.

+33 Reply

Suzywao Suzywao

In response to “Because babies grow in ****.

Well the ** communicates with the uterus, where the foetus does grow, and the ** also communicates with the outside world... My point was that the place the foetus grows isn't completely void of all potential sensory stimuli.

011 Reply

dzmax

In response to “Well the **** communicates with the uterus...

Why does it matter if the fetus communicates with the outside world or has sensory input? So does a fly.

0 Reply

Suzywao Suzywao

In response to “Why does it matter if the fetus communicates...

It matters because the person whose bandwagon it would seem you are jumping on made this statement a few comments up:

"The difference is, one has a consciousness. One has developed the ability to feel physical and emotional pain. The other hasn't. The difference between a baby and a fetus is the difference betwen a human and a tree, minus the DNA difference."

The fact that the foetus has sensory input means that it can feel physical pain. As for emotional pain, it's unlikely that anyone will ever have a definitive affirmation to that unless there is someone out there who remembers life as a foetus.

Just as a side note, the foetus doesn't communicate directly with the outside world because it is contained within the amniotic sac.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “There is plenty of sensory input in the womb;...

What kind of sensory input? What is in a womb that would require thought on a conscious level for a fetus?

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “What kind of sensory input? What is in a womb...

Jeez figure it out for yourself. Do you really need to be spoon-fed everything?

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “Jeez figure it out for yourself. Do you...

No, but if you're telling me you know something which can prove me wrong, you should probably tell me what it is. Imagine if someone told you he could prove the Earth was flat, and when you asked him to prove it, he said "Jeez figure it out for yourself." Would you instantly agree with him? Would you go home and try to figure it out for yourself?

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “No, but if you're telling me you know...

I'd read up on it, even if I was sure I already knew everything there is to know about it; now go, read. Learn something new.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “I'd read up on it, even if I was sure I...

Let's see my options:
1. I waste valuable time to go to a whole bunch of websites and read several books to find something of virtually no importance and which probably doesn't exist.
2. You tell me, using virtually no effort, and thus give yourself an opportunity to show off how smart you are.
3. You continue to refuse to back up your claims, and everyone who reads this will think you have no idea what you're talking about.

+11 Reply

personThingy

In response to “Let's see my options: 1. I waste valuable...

I find it funny how you don't even consider the possibility that it is you who looks as though they don't know what they are talking about. We've been over this before: my ego doesn't need stroking and I'm comfortable and secure about my **** size.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “I find it funny how you don't even consider...

Of course I've considered the possibility, but whoever is reading this thread apparently agrees with me. You say you have evidence, you show me the evidence. Otherwise you lose. That's the way it works.

+11 Reply

personThingy

In response to “Of course I've considered the possibility...

That's just the way you think it works. The world doesn't operate by your mantra - thankfully. As I've said many times before, I'm content with letting you figure things out for yourself. If the frustration of not having me yield to you doesn't overwhelm the thirst for knowledge, that is. And it wouldn't surprise me if you were upvoting your own comments; I can't imagine that many people are actually reading this far down the page on a weeks-old post.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “That's just the way you think it works. The...

I have surprised myself by not swallowing my own vomit when you accused me of logging out, finding this post, and voting on these just to lower your self-esteem. Believe it or not, I actually have things to do other than your ridiculous instructions or accusations. No, I did not vote on any of my own comments or yours.
You've completely given up on the idea of actually arguing the point, but you're still here. Any reason for this?

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “I have surprised myself by not swallowing my...

If you just vomited, that's a sign that you're way too into this. Step away from the computer. Go outside. Get some outdoor air into your lungs. And some sunlight on your skin. Sunlight is healthy for you - unless you're going to try and tell me that I'm wrong about that too.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “If you just vomited, that's a sign that...

I didn't vomit, but I felt like I was going to.
Seriously, why are you here on a controversial post if you're not going to argue?

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “I didn't vomit, but I felt like I was going...

Because life isn't about arguing. I saw your comment, noticed you said something wrong, corrected it, and now look where we are - you've taken it as a personal attack on you, your family, and your dog, you're making personal attacks against me just because I don't feel like stating something that to me is blindingly obvious (and was before I officially had the knowledge I have) and you are getting nauseous because of how stressful it is. Is your heart racing? Can you feel your head pulsating? Are you hyperventilating, sweating so much that you can barely type, feeling your stomach cramping up ever so slightly? If yes, stop now before you stroke out. This is most definitely not worth that.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “Because life isn't about arguing. I saw your...

Life isn't about arguing, but amirite is.
You have failed to correct this mistake that I suposedly made. Miserably.
If it is blindingly obvious, why is it easier to insult me than to simply explain it to me?
Your previous accusation was quite disgusting, but that wouldn't make me hyperventilate, or get a stroke. Your rationale for my exit from this thread is fictional, while mine is based on the nature of this website, your belief in my intelligence, and the assumption that you do not have ego issues.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “Life isn't about arguing, but amirite is. You...

I didn't even bother trying to make sense of that because I'm getting tired and you're mincing your words unnecessarily. This website is no more about arguing than a launderette.

Stroke can be caused by high blood pressure, which can be brought about by the stress/anxiety you experienced when I made my oh-so heinous 'accusations'. That would also explain the hyperventilation. One does not 'get' a stroke; it is something they experience, not something they catch.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “I didn't even bother trying to make sense of...

If amirite isn't about arguing, then Facebook isn't about social networking, and Google isn't about finding things ont the internet.

Why is 'accusations' in quotes? I have already gotten over how low you would go, so implying that you actually believe what you said will not have any effect on my health.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “If amirite isn't about arguing, then Facebook...

Facebook isn't about social networking and Google isn't about finding things on the Internet; both are about making money. But I'm merely mocking. Amirite isn't about arguing; you've just taken it upon yourself to argue every inane point you can find to the death by combining words together in the most terrible of ways. I don't even understand the last sentence of the comment this is in response to, nor do I care.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “I find it funny how you don't even consider...

I didn't expect you to admit you had ego issues. Nobody ever does.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “I didn't expect you to admit you had ego...

And your proof for that statement?

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “And your proof for that statement?

I was exaggerating. Of course some people could admit they have ego issues. You apparently aren't one of them. As for my first statement, you will find it difficult to disprove that I wasn't expecting something.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “I was exaggerating. Of course some people...

You most definitely don't speak for me.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “You most definitely don't speak for me.

I said apparently.
Say that you have ego issues, then.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “I said apparently. Say that you have ego...

I'm not a performing monkey.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “I'm not a performing monkey.

That I don't deny. No matter how hard I try, I can't imagine you performing. Of course it doesn't help that I don't know anything about you.

I don't speak for you, but it seems like I was pretty accurate.

Will explaining the emotional range and mental abilities of a fetus really damage your ego so much? You claim you don't have ego issues.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “That I don't deny. No matter how hard I try...

"it seems like I was pretty accurate"

Again, you don't speak for me so don't be so presumptuous. I have no ego issues relating to this, and it is for that reason that I don't feel compelled to share with you what, as I have stated numerous times, should be obvious. Imagine you're sat in a ball of water for forty weeks. It's hardly rocket science. You'll probably manage it eventually.

You're changing the goalposts now; before it was just about consciousness, and then it somehow moved onto emotional and physical pain, and now it's about mental abilities. Next you'll be disputing the ability of a foetus to go to college and get a degree.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “"it seems like I was pretty...

Consciousness is a mental ability. Surely you're not going to deny that.
If I was asleep and sitting in a ball of water for 40 weeks, and I had nothing to think or dream about, then... no, I can't imagine what would happen. It would take less effort to explain this than it has taken you to write any one of these replies.
Saying something is obvious doesn't help. If you were taking a test and your teacher kept saying "The answer to question 3 is really obvious," I don't think you would get the answer any sooner.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “Consciousness is a mental ability. Surely...

I don't even care. I honestly don't. I think that you are pathetic for actually taking this as seriously as you do. This is the Internet! You have a wealth of knowledge at your disposal and numerous websites that allow you to access it. All you have to do is search, and yet you return here and pound on and on and on, and for what? You know I won't deliver to you what you wish because that would be too simple, and doing so would only mean that you would find a hole somewhere or something else to try and pick apart with your flawed knowledge and your flawed logic. No, no more. Google the answers you seek because you aren't getting them from me - that is final, and you already know this.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “You're right, you don't need a beating heart...

Also, if I'm wasting your time, then **** off. Don't whinge about it to me because I'm not forcing you to read my comments.

-11 Reply

dzmax

In response to “Also, if I'm wasting your time, then ****...

If you don't want to be in an argument, then **** off. Don't whinge about it to me because I'm not forcing you to argue.
It's funny how you think you can complain about this thread but I can't.
Actually, it's not funny. It's just sad.
I don't know what you mean by "as usual." I understood everything you said perfectly until you started talking about this mystical "spark." Believe it or not, just because someone can read your comments and understand your points doesn't mean they will immediately be brainwashed into agreeing with them.

+11 Reply

personThingy

In response to “If you don't want to be in an argument, then...

Nobody's telling you to be brainwashed by what anyone is saying, but it wouldn't kill you to actually know stuff every once in a while either.

-11 Reply

dzmax

In response to “Nobody's telling you to be brainwashed by...

You have yet to prove that I don't "know stuff."

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “You have yet to prove that I don't "know...

As I've already said four times (before you deleted my previous comments), you're proving me correct all by yourself. Otherwise, I invite you to offer us your credentials. Surprise me; are you hiding a PhD in embryology or an MD behind that handle somewhere?

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “As I've already said four times (before you...

If you have a PhD in embryology, then how is it that you can't do something so simple as telling me why I'm wrong about an abortion debate?
If you don't, then you're just being stupid.
I hope when you made your previous comment that you didn't actually expect me to know EVERYTHING. That would simply be stupid. If you actually knew everything:
-you wouldn't accuse me of anonymously voting on this thread.
-you would have better things to do than argue on the internet.
-you wouldn't expect other people to know everything.
-you could easily prove you know more than I do.
Since you don't know everything, you have no right to insult others for not knowing things. You should at least be able to tell me what you know and I don't know.

0 Reply

Anonymous

In response to “If you have a PhD in embryology, then how is...

This is all dependent on my having a PhD in embryology, yes? Then, on that front, I am safe.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “This is all dependent on my having a PhD in...

No. Your inability to explain what you claim to know for a fact would only be slightly worsened by your hypothetical PhD. It would be extremely tragic if you knew everything, though. If you don't have a PhD in embryology, it is ridiculous to expect that I would.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “No. Your inability to explain what you claim...

It's not ridiculous at all. What is ridiculous is that you think it is ridiculous. You clearly have strong feelings on this matter that are influencing your ability to be reasoned with, and so it is perfectly logical to consider the possibility that you are an expert in the field. However, your reply tells me that this is not the case, and I will assume the same is true of the MD and any other degree that would suggest you actually had a working knowledge of these things.

0 Reply

dzmax

In response to “It's not ridiculous at all. What is...

I said in my About Me, I'm not going to do a great deal of research for an amirite argument, so tell me any more accurate information you have and I may change my mind.
If it were this obvious, there wouldn't be a pro-choice argument. Someone like you would have made a speech or posted some really popular YouTube video explaining why abortion is wrong. Pro-choice would quickly become pointless because all self-respecting people who heard your argument would agree with you, thus defeating the idea of pro-choice. The fact is, there is still a large population of pro-choice, so we must assume your potential argument is not as obvious as you think it is.

0 Reply

personThingy

In response to “I said in my About Me, I'm not going to do a...

This isn't an argument. You just think it is. You speak here at great length about something you have now inadvertently admitted to knowing virtually nothing about. You also continue to make assumptions about me that are incorrect. You're trying to argue fact with your own interpretation of the world. Man, get some perspective.

0 Reply

dzmax

I seriously thought pro-choice meant pro-youhavethisoptionjustincase. And I don't get why you'd have to be suicidal to not be pro-life (or was that an exaggeration and I'm just slow?).

+11 Reply

ilikeit ilikeit

In response to “I seriously thought pro-choice meant...

Pro-life = for life, if you're not for life you're against it, i.e. suicidal. Yeah, it is kind of a stretch.

+33 Reply

partinobodycular partinobodycular

In response to “I seriously thought pro-choice meant...

The opposite of pro-life would be against-life, meaning you want every baby to be killed (which might be the view of someone who is suicidal). He is saying that the term "pro-life" is inadequate in this respect, not that the pro-life stance is the only viable position.

0 Reply

BP032 BP032

But it's not like that's the kind of thing that happens all the time. It's not really a reasonable expectation to have. What if the mother has other children to care for? How can you judge a mother in that situation? That must be an awful position to be in, and it's not anyone else's place to judge.

0 Reply

foryoublue

That's a huge abortion argument.

0 Reply

Anonymous

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