lab-grown meat wouldn't be vegetarian, but it might be vegan, amirite?

Are you defining vegetarian as "eats only vegetables" and vegan as "doesn't harm animals"?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

"Not meat" vs "doesn't come from an animal." It manages to meet the second definition but not the first

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Veganism is about being against animal exploitation. If no ongoing exploitation is happening it's likely that this would be acceptable to many vegans.

by Abbigailpaucek 1 week ago

If animals are involved in the process at all, vegans would consider that exploitation and would not eat it

by elzarussel 1 week ago

I'm sure they're not irrational enough to think simply taking a cell sample from an animal is exploiting them.

by ezekiel18 1 week ago

I mean, the animal is still kept in captivity and is physically harmed for the removal of the cells. Although a 5g biopsy can create several tons of meat. However, further development will allow to keep those 5g replicating indefinitely. It is theorerically possible and has been done before, but its not at a standard suitable for large scale production yet.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Fair enough, yeah I'm more talking about the time when the technology matures more and we don't need recurring samples.

by ezekiel18 1 week ago

Just to further the point. Vegans don't wear things made of wool. Even though shearing sheep is basically like getting a haircut, they still consider it exploitation of the sheep.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Hotly debated amongst vegans. Many do wear wool for the reasons you stated. (Though usually they don't just buy any old wool. Most go through sanctuaries or their own pet sheep). However because of the feasibility of doing this yourself most vegans abstain.

by Nikki22 1 week ago

It depends. Usually the problem is keeping the sheep around to the point where it needs a haircut.

by palmapollich 1 week ago

Depends on the vegan. Some don't wear wool, some do. Some don't eat honey, some do. Heck some will still wear leather as long as it's bought secondhand, since it's arguably better for the environment than synthetic fabrics.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Now I'm curious if they'd eat a cultured sample of my tissue, provided I signed a waiver that I was paid for my time and resources, and not exploited.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I would hope that most vegans could appreciate the utilitarian benefit of keeping a few animals in captivity to prevent the slaughter of thousands.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Have you ever met a vegan?

by leannonkobe 1 week ago

Would a leather bag made from a carcass on the side of the road be considered vegan?

by Sea_Judge_2764 1 week ago

I sat next to a not obnoxious vegan on a plane and we eventually got to questions like this. I only found out they were one in like the last half hour of the flight, so definitely no instant the conversation started veganism like the memes. It's interesting where people will draw the line, because something like using wool from animals who need to have it trimmed is generally okay. This situation isn't too far advanced from it.

by Narrow_Row_2142 1 week ago

veg·an noun a person who does not eat any food derived from animals and who typically does not use other animal products. "I'm a strict vegan" adjective eating, using, or containing no food or other products derived from animals. "a vegan diet"

by Anonymous 1 week ago

its almost like a singular definition doesn't encapsulate the entire vegan population, and some would find it acceptable and some wont!

by Altenwerthtrist 1 week ago

Generations ago? Not the reasonable ones. Otherwise, plants grown in manure would not be vegan.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

wouldn't that mean vegans don't eat apples?

by marqueswisozk 1 week ago

doubt it. most vegans won't eat honey.

by Such_Restaurant 1 week ago

Honey production can be very exploitative. Look up wing clipping and malnutrition in bees.

by Abbigailpaucek 1 week ago

Assuming it is non-exploitative: I've met too many vegans that do not seem to understand/know the moral stance of veganism (usually it's a "diet," 'Bessy the cow is soooo cute, how could I eat her?!,' or something else totally not related to animal exploitation/permission) that I don't know how many would actually know or care about the difference

by Comfortable-Ship 1 week ago

Yes that's fair. Realistically I guess it has expanded from this formal definition as things usually do as they get more popular! I guess it can only be good for the animals and the environment regardless of the reasons.

by Abbigailpaucek 1 week ago

A vegan diet is about not eating any animal products while vegetarian is just about the meat (eggs and milk and honey and cheese can still be eaten by vegetarians). Since lab meat uses a real cell from an animal like a seed to grow out the rest of the meat, it is still an animal product and therefore not vegan.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

The involvement, initial or continued, in fully developed lab grown meat is the same as plants being grown with manure.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

It does come from an animal, though. Fewer animals than regular meat, but at the end of the chain, still.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Seems reasonable.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Aren't those the definitions?

by Fritz02 1 week ago

Vegetarians just don't eat meat, but will eat milk and eggs and stuff. Vegans avoid all animal products.

by Impressive_Range 1 week ago

Seems like this extra strict definition makes the lab grown meat vegan.

by Popular-Barracuda 1 week ago

If the original culture for lab grown meat is that of an animal - then it wouldn't meet vegan specifications. However, there are semantics and then there is culture. I'd suggest that most vegans would compromise that one animal being sacrificed for the original culture of meat production is ultimately better than millions of animals dying for meat. Then, you have reality. Where lab grown meat is extremely difficult to produce, potentially risky, and will very likely not become a product that'll ever replace actual meat products.

by Emelie09 1 week ago

I'm not saying lab grown meat replacing meat in reality. It far from is. But asking whether a cell from a living animal were used to culture lab - grown meat becomes stupid when many animals died of various causes in the food web to make you that carrot.

by Popular-Barracuda 1 week ago

Why do you think it is risky and will never replace actual meat products? Steak? maybe not minced meat and sausage based products? Why the hell not?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Vegans avoid all animal products. Because they care if a cow is harmed to collect milk, but not if humans are exploited to collect their fruits and veggies.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Makes sense. Cows are fluffy and go moo. Humans are just annoying most of the time.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Exactly!! Unlike all those meat eaters who never eat fruits and veggies!! And eat their meat raw because oil and gas and electricity are also made through human exploitation!!

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Lol, I really triggered some of you.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Humans have agency, and instances where that's not true are fringe cases. Every product that involves an animal doesn't care about consent. That's the whole point.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I feel like they wouldn't be huge fans of companies using slavery to pick their fruits and veggies too.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

That sounds like the same thing with different words

by Fritz02 1 week ago

Er, vegan is a more strict type of vegetarian.

by Tluettgen 1 week ago

Not exactly, the vegan diet seems more restrictive than vegetarianism only because of the world we find ourselves in. One of the ways that veganism is less restrictive is that voluntary cannibalism is allowable in a vegan diet but not a vegetarian one. If meat could be produced without animal suffering, it would be vegan but not vegetarian. Vegetarianism is a diet that excludes meat without any reason needed. Veganism is a diet that excludes those foods that cause most animal suffering (all food does it to some extent), which under the current world we live in includes meat, animal derived foods and products produced by animals.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Vegetarians are OK with animal harm, look at sea creatures, eggs, milk, cheese, leather etc Vegans are anti-animal harm

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Vegetarians do not eat sea creatures.

by Holiday-Ad 1 week ago

I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years. I get asked all the time if I eat seafood or chicken. I wouldn't be a vegetarian if I did. It's weird people don't understand this. I also have relatives who think I only eat vegetables because I'm a veget-arian. And people who think I should just eat meat in circumstances (so I don't have to make two meals when I cook Thanksgiving, etc.), which again, would mean I'm not a vegetarian. Anyone who eats seafood is a pescatarian which is not the same thing. Some people try to be on vegetarian diets for health reasons and they are more lenient but if they eat meat in any capacity, they're not vegetarians. They're meat-eaters who limit how much meat they eat. If you are a vegetarian because of animal rights reasons, you don't deviate and you do avoid things like leather as much as possible. Vegans avoid leather, too, but nobody can avoid it 100% (riding in a car with leather seats, etc.).

by Holiday-Ad 1 week ago

Because I wouldn't be able to maintain it. So I have no reason in starting what I can't do for life. I'm a weightlifter and I've gained 50 pounds of muscle without eating meat but I don't think I could do that if I restricted whey protein, etc. Incidentally, I drink vegan milk and vegan butter and vegan cheese because I don't like dairy so I do sort of have a vegan diet; but I'm not opposed to eating regular cheese if need be so I can't define myself a vegan, etc. Basically you can only do what you can do. I have a lot of vegan friends and they do their best to avoid anything with vegan products (like can't have Skittles 'cause of the dye, etc.) and only buy vegan wallets and shoes and toothpaste, etc. but they ride in my car with leather seats. Like, you can only do the best you can do but can't avoid animal products 100%. To me, I don't want to eat the flesh of something once alive and I don't want animals to be slaughtered for my sake. I'm not opposed to eating eggs but I choose Happy Eggs which may or may not be better. But I'm not opposed to eating other eggs if I have no choice; I just do the best I can when I can.

by Holiday-Ad 1 week ago

isnt everything vegan also vegetarian

by bechtelarwilma 1 week ago

Unless it's synthetic meat. Wouldn't be vegetarian, but would be considered vegan since it didn't come from animals

by Billiehaley 1 week ago

its not really meat though? i think meat has to come from an animal to be considered meat

by bechtelarwilma 1 week ago

Yeah, it's grown from meat cells. It's literally meat grown in a lab. An animal had to be slaughtered for the initial cells, but going forward all future lab grown meat would be real meat grown in a lab.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

they wouldn't be slaughtered, a sample can be collected from a living organism

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Technically that would be an animal product like milk or eggs, so still not vegan

by Radiant_Power 1 week ago

we need to legally classify chicken as vegetable. if tomato can be a fruit i don't see why it isn't possible.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Dope!

by Anonymous 1 week ago

i personally wouldnt count that as meat, but if someone does, i can understand it, its a completely valid opinion. i didnt think too hard about my answer lol

by bechtelarwilma 1 week ago

Would you consider it protein?

by ManufacturerKey4271 1 week ago

Like replicants in Blade Runner? They had replicant animals as well. I'm pretty sure they could grow replicant steaks. I don't think there were many real cows left in that world.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Fake meat isn't, but lab-grown meat is virtually identical to real meat, you just don't need to grow and slaughter a whole animal for it However, it does need stem cell samples from live animals and until the last few years, they needed to use foetal bovine serum to actually grow the (beef) meat. Now that there is a process that only requires stem cell samples from the animal I imagine a lot of ethical vegetarians and vegans will be willing to start eating it, but it wouldn't be suitable for people who are vegetarian or vegan for dietary reasons

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Currently, yes. In this hypothetical, not anymore.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

But where did they get the cells to grow meat? From a carrot?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

you actually don't even need to kill the animal. just one time sampling some cells like skin cells to be reprogrammed to stem cells ("immortal" in a lab setting) that will then ultimately be used to make the different type of cells in meat

by Anonymous 1 week ago

yes, some of them do (for now). There are startups that dont use FBS. The field is is not cost efficient yet but give it some years and this will be as cheap as industrialised meat farming but without killing billions of animals and without absolutely wrecking the environment

by Anonymous 1 week ago

The only issue with infinite lab meat is that as soon as we see no need for those animals, I expect they would be mass slaughtered and all their meat wasted, which is definitely worse than killing the animal and actually using the resources you get from it.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

probably better than the environment though, depending on exactly the process of growing the lab meat. and there would always be a market for the "real thing" so they wouldnt go extinct.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

They'd probably just be left to live their lives out? Cows, sheep, pigs etc are jot naturally occurring animals and shouldn't exist anyway.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

That would require them to be fed. Theyd be slaughtered and sold. Why would anyone let them go to waste?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Not naturally occurring animals?

by darianakuhn 1 week ago

Right yes, selectively bred

by darianakuhn 1 week ago

I expect if lab meat took off there would be orders of magnitude less of the animals we use for livestock. It's a hugely artificially inflated population that lives in a great deal of suffering, I imagine most vegans would prefer many less of these animals exist purely to suffer and die for our sustenance

by darianakuhn 1 week ago

Fetal bovine serum is something as non vegan as it gets. They have to kill a pregnant cow and extract it from its unborn fetus. But what's your point?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Just let them naturally depopulate and care for whatever is left, same as any wild herds of animals are

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Of course they wouldn't. That's the point.

by Abbigailpaucek 1 week ago

No, they would slaughter them and sell the meat as they always intended to do. A few breeds would probably still be around for fancy foods, but thats about it. Till it gets to the point lab grown meat can be produced at that scale will be a long journey though, it wont be a simple "lab grown" or "animal based" switch. It will be a shifting scale over a long time period.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

It's sort of like that somewhat ironically "free range" type animal products are worse for the planet since they need more farm land to produce the same amount of product compared to factory farming. Factory farming while generally cruel to the animal, is better for the environment from its efficiency. Not to mention that something like methane capture is almost impossible with free range while quite practical in factory farming. With animal farming being one of the larger impacts on the environment this is something to consider.

by Narrow_Row_2142 1 week ago

Same place they get fertiliser, I imagine.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

if it's vegan then it's by definition vegetarian

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Depends on how much you want to argue semantics. Technically lab-grown meat wouldn't 'come from an animal' per se, so you could totally make the argument that that means it can be vegan. Obviously it isn't vegetarian under any circumstances, it's still meat. A lot of vegans would probably be fine with eating things that are currently animal products if we could suddenly produce them without ever harming animals. That's sort of the crux of veganism, no? That the problem is not the food itself but what has to happen, ie slaughtering animals, for it to be available in the first place?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

As a vegetarian I eat the "meat" of a jackfruit. I don't eat the flesh or bones of animals. Lab-grown meat wouldn't be the flesh or bones of an animal.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Who eats bones?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

From what I understand, gelatin is made from pig's bones (or fish bones if it's kosher).

by Anonymous 1 week ago

If you want to go down to semantics, lab-grown meat isn't meat. As would vegetarians? Vegetarianism has a lot if similar motivation, they don't have a phobia of any food that might semantically be considered meat

by donnellreichert 1 week ago

Why wouldn't it be meat? A lab grown diamond is still a diamond. If you grow a human in a lab it would still be human.

by Yostdashawn 1 week ago

Meat by definition is flesh of animals used for food. So either it involves animals being used/abused for it, hence vegans wouldn't eat it either, or it isn't meat in the sense vegetarians wouldn't eat it

by donnellreichert 1 week ago

Yeah and definitions and language evolves over time. Denying progress because of old definitions is stupid. This is especially true when the word is accompanied by another word or phrase that opens to a different meaning in the first place. Meat might still be meat per definition, but lab grown meat or synthetic meat are exactly that. Meat that is synthetically grown in a lab. Just as one can find a diamond but also create one in a lab. Still a diamond either way. You wouldn‘t deny the existence of coke zero because per your definition „coke is a beverage made of water sugar and artificial flavouring… etc.", because you know that „zero" changes the meaning of the original word „coke"

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Lab-grown meat has never existed before, that's the whole point. Why would the technical definition of 'meat' include something that has previously never existed? Of course it doesn't take into account synthetic meat, we're still in the process of inventing it.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Depends on what you mean by lab-grown meat. At lot of work is going towards growing muscle tissue from stem cells. That is definitely meat, but it hasn't been a part of any nervous system.

by Hbernier 1 week ago

Sure. I'm not familiar with the exact methods used. But that's not the definition of meat vegetarians avoid, so if that makes process makes it "technically vegan" it's also "technically vegetarian"

by donnellreichert 1 week ago

Meet south Asian vegetarians. They legit cannot eat meat, if they've not had meat since their childhood. My girlfriend is one of them. She wants to, but it icks her out now, so she's vegetarian, not by choice. Anyone who's never ever eaten meat in their life, it's very difficult to start

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Have a vegetarian friend who doesn't even like impossible meat because it tastes too much like meat lol.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

"lot of vegans would probably be fine with eating things that are currently animal products if we could suddenly produce them without ever harming animals." That might be their reason for being vegan, but if they start consuming animal products, then they are no longer vegan. The vegan diet is already defined as not eating animal products (no meat, no eggs, no milk, no honey). Lab meat uses a cell from an animal like a seed to grow out the rest of the meat. If a vegan is fine with that and wants to start eating that animal product, then that's their choice, but hey are no longer vegan once they start eating animal products.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

No, lab grown meat is still meat so a vegetarian wouldn't eat it by definition, but if it was produced without any harm to any animal it would be vegan (vegans might still choose not to eat it though)

by Anonymous 1 week ago

No read up on the difference between veganism and plant based dieting

by Anonymous 1 week ago

As a vegetarian, I don't believe I have ever met a vegetarian who does so because it is healthier. That said I also don't interrogate people over their dietary choices as I am A not interested and B know how annoying it is. But watching other vegetarians chow down on ice cream, butter and deep pan pizza, I assume that health is not at the fore front of their minds.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Are we talking about ethical veganism or regular veganism? Because ethical veganism isn't the same as vegetarian. If you see a car in front of you hit and kill a deer, a vegetarian couldn't eat that, a traditional vegan couldn't eat that, but an ethical vegan could since they didn't cause any suffering to the animal, there was nothing they could have done to prevent it's death or suffering, not moving the corpse away from the road could result in more animal deaths if they get hit while trying to scavenge it and if they eat that deer they buy less food from shops which leads to less pollution.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Ethical began is just vegan The other "regular vegan" is just a plant based diet

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I can't wait for lab-grown protein slabs to hit the market

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Lab grown meat typically needs cells from animals, meaning it's not vegan.

by Shot-Seaweed 1 week ago

But the ethical matter would be whether harvesting those cells caused animal suffering. If it didn't, I don't see why vegans would be opposed. Then it would come down to individual taste.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Using animal products in any way unfortunately means its not vegan, even if it's not harmful to animals. Honey can be obtained from bees harmlessly however that still isn't considered vegan.

by Shot-Seaweed 1 week ago

Lab-meat uses a real animal cell, like a seed to grow out the rest of the meat. It isn't magically made in a lab. It is grown from an animal product (an animal's cell), therefore it is neither vegetarian (because it is meat) nor vegan (came from an animal, an animal's cell).

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Vegan is stricter vegetarian. But whether that is vegetarian is up to your definition. Some vegetarians might not eat it for health reasons, the same for meat.

by Macejkoviclyda 1 week ago

Dietary vegetarian/vegan or ethical vegetarian/vegan

by Anonymous 1 week ago

We can finally have beef and pork arranged chicken-wing-wise. Or a chicken T-bone.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I still don't know the difference

by keelingannabell 1 week ago

Vegetarians don't eat meat, vegans don't exploit animals. So if lab grown meat could be made without exploiting animals, it could be vegan, but it would still be meat so vegetarians would avoid it.

by Firm-Collection8449 1 week ago

"no meat" vs "no animal products of any kind". Yes, that includes milk, eggs, honey, and even non-food stuff like leather

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Depends on what lab-grown-meat you're talking about. There is plantbased meat and there is the other one that is basically like growing cancer cells (and pretty disgusting when the stuff that I've heard about it is right).

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I think what matters is why the person is vegetarian or vegan. I have a coworker who is vegetarian for ethical reasons and I actually asked her about this previously. Her response was as long as the cells are collected ethically and humanely, then she would eat Lab Grown Meat. It's the same with eggs and milk and other animal products, she'll eat them as long as their collection is humane. I imagine a Vegan who doesn't eat any animal-based products wouldn't eat lab meat because it's still sourced from animals.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Vegetarian: no animal had to die

by Robynaltenwerth 1 week ago

It's meat, grown in a lab.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

It's what the name entails. Beef made not in the body of a cow, but in the sterile dish of a microscope.

by Hermistonabelar 1 week ago

muscle cells taken from an animal (without the need of killing it) expanded in the lab at big scale so they form larger amounts of meat. A small biopsy of a few grams can be expanded to multiple tons of meat that way.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Neat

by Anonymous 1 week ago

It's not either. It's animal flesh just like normal meat. Just wasn't made by a living animal.

by watsicanikko 1 week ago

If you assume no live animal was harmed in any way during the process, it would be 100% vegan

by Anonymous 1 week ago

If you assume no live animal was harmed in any way during the process, it would be 100% vegan That's literally not what vegan means. Vegan means you are not eating any animal products. The origin doesn't matter. Meat is still meat, regardless of whether or not any animals were harmed. Same thing with milk and cheese. If it contains animal cells, it is tainted. Not all Vegans are vegan for animal rights reasons. Some of them believe meat is literally bad for you. I've known vegans like this. Does not matter to me personally. Just saying, that is what the word means.

by watsicanikko 1 week ago

Lab grown meat requires the use of cell cultures collected from the unborn fetuses of slaughtered cows, known as fetal bovine serum (FBS). So it's definitely not vegan.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Still need a growth serum from fetus

by hermannsherman 1 week ago

In fact, it does not.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Doesn't make it less gay

by Anonymous 1 week ago

vegeterian + politics equals vegan

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Anything can be political depending on whether their personal belief or choice affects other people, and depending on the intention behind why they do something (including some reasons for why someone might be into vegetarianism). A vegetarian diet just means not eating meat, while a vegan diet means not eating animal products (no meat, no milk, no cheese, no honey, and no lab-grown meat which was grown from an animal's cell).

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Cows are vegans. Beef is vegan meat.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

They'd still protest not being able to justify their narrative

by rmoen 1 week ago

Yea... Nah... Have you tried vegan cheese? It doesn't even melt. Can't make a grilled cheese sandwich. You can't tell when it's stale. If the cheese is bad and cheese is supposed to be delicious, the meat will probably be bad too.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Respectfully, you seem to have missed my point.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

No, the meat will literally be the exact same as meat from a cow on a farm, considering it's living cells taken from cows

by Anonymous 1 week ago

So... Not vegan.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I mean, don't most vegans refrain from eating animal products as a protest of the unnecessary cruelty involved with the production of most animal products?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

"I mean, don't most vegans refrain from eating animal products as a protest of the unnecessary cruelty involved with the production of most animal products?" Maybe that's their reason for choosing to be on a vegan diet (which doesn't allow animal products), but it doesn't magically make an animal product vegan, just because the animal product didn't come from harming an animal. Lab meat is still an animal product (an animal product, a cell, was used like a seed to grow out the restof the meat).

by Anonymous 1 week ago

You've got it backwards. The question is whether it's vegan, not whether it's from animal proteins. It is 100% from animal proteins. That's what lab grown meat is.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Didn't I say that? Like... Twice? And since it's from an animal it can't be vegan, right?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Ok... Yes. Can you tell me what vegan means?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

You're either a little bit slow or arguing for the sake of arguing but either way goodnight

by Anonymous 1 week ago

k

by Anonymous 1 week ago