No. They can believe in God for other reasons.
Such as:
1) They are religious.
2) They believe in God (usually ties in to #1)
3) They realize that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God.
4) insert other reasons here
I'm confident that whatever science proves will never be enough to diminish the faith of all of the religious people in the world. So thats irrelevant.
It's fun to read the debates, anyhow. Most posts are here should be taken with a grain of salt and reading posts wouldn't change your opinion on anything, and if they do then you didn't strongly believe in that thing to begin with. :)
I think it is wrong to ever mix religion and science. The two just contradict each other too much. Doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, just don't mix the two lol.
But that's the whole point. You can't just say "don't mix them." Well you can, but that would make you lazy. If they contradict each other, one must be incorrect, or at least exaggerated.
I think the keyword here is "just." Anyone who just accepts the existence of God is lazy. You should think about it so you know exactly what you believe and why you believe it. You shouldn't just accept anything because people tell you to. Whatever you decide to believe is fine, but believe it for a reason.
One wise man once said: '' Debating with a religious person is like playing chess with a pidgeon; It will knock down all the pieces, excrete feces on the board, fly away and brag about his victory to his friends.''
To all fellow atheist's, don't expect anything to be resolved from this kind of debates. Of course it can be interesting to a point, but there is a limit to which stupidity can be endured. All I'm saying, this post was just a big bunch of trolls trolling each other, without a proper conclusion. So I'll conclude this to you: God does exist but he's existence is bound to our soul; that is our beliefs. Now as to the fact on whether soul exist, my soul is created by tiny electric currents going in my brain. And last time I checked, my God was shopping ingredients for 2012 with the invisible spaghetti monster, which so aptly was mentioned in this thread. How many of you believe in the omnipotent ISM??
ps. the wise man also said that we would have been better off without science
Because if you don't believe in God then you don't believe in Hell. Why would you believe in God simply because it might be true?
If God is real, then he is sending a lot of good people to Hell simply because they don't believe in his existence.
I don't believe in God, so I don't support the 'man who gave me life and created the universe.' I honestly believe science makes more sense.
I shouldn't have to be scared into believing in something I don't want to because Hell might exist. I'd rather support MY beliefs and go to Hell for them than give in to other people's beliefs and go to Heaven for them.
@352339 (anon): Then why would you say you would like to go to Hell if you believe it doesn't exist...?
And I believe in God because I have faith, and I realize that there is no possible way life and this universe could have been created unless God did so.
And no, God is not sending a lot of good people to Hell simply because they dont believe in him. Do you have proof of this? If you attended church you would know that non-believers are not automatically banished to hell. God is not cruel- he knows the difference between good and bad. When a person passes away, most people pray for them to be sent to hell- and God listens to these prayes and know sthe effect each person has had on the world, and the people around them. Their faith is not the only thing he considers when they are in purgatory. If you don't support the man who gave you life, then you should not be accepting his gift and living. The point of believing in God and heaven is not to scare yourself into being
"And no, God is not sending a lot of good people to Hell simply because they dont believe in him. Do you have proof of this?" No I don't. Do you have proof of anything you've said in that comment?
The point of faith is not having proof, it's believing, and knowing without having any solid evidence. All religions are based off of faith. I know that God is not evil and banishing people to Hell for being non-believers because I read the bible stories, and attend church and know what kind of person Jesus was. I have more reason to believe he is good, than you would to believe he is not.
Right, but as I said; You don't know that God IS evil. I have more reason to believe that he wasn't. As i said previously, through the Bible, and the church, and historical documents and artifacts like the shroud of turin, I have faith that my God IS who I believe him to be. I don't see any evidence or reasons that could possibly lead you to believe he is not.
Well one bit of evidence would be all the really bad stuff that happens, but I don't want to get into an argument about the problem of evil. The only point I was trying to make was that I find it really annoying when people state their beliefs, religious or otherwise, as though they were fact.
Athiestim is for stupid people. That is really the known fact of the life. you can say your not believe in God but you are just dmning yourself to hll. If you want to go to that place of the devil than keep on worshiping the devil. notice how the word worshiping is like WARshipping?? Your shiping supplies to the devil!! I hate stupid athiests!!
So being atheist, a term which describes someone who believes in NO religion, automatically classifies you as a devil worshipper? Last time I checked Satanism was kind of a religion.
But, if not believing in God does send me to Hell, then I won't mind. Because it means I won't have to put up with people like you who, supposedly, will be sent to Heaven.
Fyi, if you want to tell people how stupid other people are, your post probably shouldn't have spelling/grammatical mistakes.
And it's probably not a good idea to base your argument around the fact that "worshipping" is like "warshipping" since most religions worship someone or something, just not the devil.
You do realize worshipping is the same word used to describe loyalty to God as well, right...? And according to Christianity, God gave people free will: the right to choose. So are you going to call all of us stupid for exercising a right given to us by your God? It's a bit hypocritical...
Well, since you are clearly not a Christian, I'd like to ask you to change your name. You couldn't possibly say you know the love of God when you say you hate a group of people. It really makes me mad all these people who claim to be Christians, yet they swear and hate and are ignorant. Last time I checked the Bible is supposed to be about loving one another and building people up according to their needs.
Sorry but I believe you are just joining the bandwagon if Atheism. I believe even History or science can not refute the Bible. There was once a king of Assyria who has never written in the history of Assyrian empire but was mentioned in the bible. This was King Sargon. Historians didn't believe the Bible because of this. There was never a King Sargon written in the history of Assyria until excavations of his palace at
Dur Sharrukin (Khorsabad) have uncovered his personal annals, in which he recorded in detail his destruction of Samaria. See? Even the bible has what history has been missing. And scientifically speaking, do you know how much minerals in your body can be found on the earth's crust?! This proves that we are made from the clay.
"And scientifically speaking, do you know how much minerals in your body can be found on the earth's crust?! This proves that we are made from the clay." That's a pretty low standard for proof...
And the Bible is very useful as a historical document. No arguments here.
I agree. They have discovered how complex the nature is and how wonderful the anatomical design of animal and human bodies are that this could not be a result of a mere coincidence but a masterpiece of the most intelligent architect, GOD. =)
I don't want to get into an argument about whether or not god exists, but scientists have not discovered something so wonderful that god MUST have created it.
But the fact that scientists have no explaination for SO many things proves that life and the universe is the work of something greater than all of us. Something so great, that science can't even define it.
Well unless you have a time machine, there's really no way to know that. Many of the scientific discoveries we know about today were scoffed at before they were proved.
Right. However, due to the fact that I believe in God, and not science, I think that there will never be a point where scientists have an explaination for everything.When you consider it- it's never going to be possible for them to explain EVERYTHING. They can't stop a simple oil leak, thus they will never be able to comprehend life's complexities.
Well then why did you say "they can't stop a simple oil leak"? I don't think we will have the answer to everything tomorrow or the next day, but given enough time anything can be solved.
Because if they were able to figure out how human life truely began, they would have stopped it the minute it started. That was my point.
And as I previously stated- I, based on MY beliefs, do not think that they will ever figure it out. Life and the universe was created by God. His powers are beyond those of any scientists.
Our opinions are different; The end. You can't change my mind- I can't change yours. We're done.
What does knowing how human life began have to do with stopping an oil leak???
Do you only debate with people when you want to change their opinions? Ever heard of expanding your mind by hearing what other people believe? You seem very closed-minded to me.
AS i said, it proves the level of competence of scientists today.
And no. I do not only debate to change opinions, however you can't convince me that God doesn't exist. Nobody will EVER change my opinion about that- so yes. When it comes to religion I am closed minded to a certain point. This debate has gotten us nowhere, and will continue to get us nowhere because I refuse to believe in science over God, and you clearly refuse to believe in God over science.
I never said I don't believe in God. You probably shouldn't make assumptions about people you don't know.
You clearly do debate only to change opinions since you think "this debate has gotten us nowhere" since neither of us has changed our minds. A debate isn't worthless just because nobody changed their mind.
Umm you've been arguing against me for saying that I believe in God. Pretty sure that means you DON'T.
We've repeated ourselves numerous times, and GONE NOWHERE.
Thats why this is debate is over. Not because I had any intent to change your mind, and now I'm disappointed.
You shouldn't make assumptions about people you don't know.
When did I assume something about you? I never said you were disappointed, you did. I simply said what you did: "This debate has gotten us nowhere . . . because you clearly refuse to believe in God over science."
And as I said, I debate with people over some things not to change their mind, but just because it is interesting to see what others believe. I didn't give you a full briefing of my beliefs because it wasn't necessary.
You assumed incorrectly that I only like to debate in order to change people's minds. I also enjoy debating to hear different opinions, however when the debate is going around in circles and the arguments have been repeated, I don't feel the need to continue the debate. It just gets tiring and redundant.
Well, to me it only felt like circles once you started to say "we're done" over and over again. That's probably why it started to tire you out. But to each her own I guess.
No. They can believe in God for other reasons.
Such as:
1) They are religious.
2) They believe in God (usually ties in to #1)
3) They realize that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God.
4) insert other reasons here
@351865 (Anonymous): Worst. Argument. Ever.
How. Is. This. The. Worst. Argument. Ever.
You can't prove/disprove the existence of invisible flying spaghetti monsters which roam the Earth as we speak.
"who is more ignorant: the man who cannot define lightning, or the man who does not respect its natural awesome power?
I love GOD!
You know that beliefs and science tie together?
@351721 (Smitty): They really don't... Science proves what happens in the bible is incorrect.
I'm confident that whatever science proves will never be enough to diminish the faith of all of the religious people in the world. So thats irrelevant.
actually, it proves how it is correct, thank you.
One word: Evolution
One word: Creationism
You believe what you want, and let me believe what I want. Because neither of us will ever win.
I'm not trying to argue beliefs here. I'm just saying that science does not prove that religion is correct, as you said above.
Actually I just saw that it was 'anon' who said that. And my response was to them, not you.
If you don't like the religious posts then ignore them. Plenty of people do like them and this site is for them as much theirs as it is for you.
It's fun to read the debates, anyhow. Most posts are here should be taken with a grain of salt and reading posts wouldn't change your opinion on anything, and if they do then you didn't strongly believe in that thing to begin with. :)
I think it is wrong to ever mix religion and science. The two just contradict each other too much. Doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, just don't mix the two lol.
But that's the whole point. You can't just say "don't mix them." Well you can, but that would make you lazy. If they contradict each other, one must be incorrect, or at least exaggerated.
The only way that I can see science and the belief in god coming together is with the creation of the universe and a deist god.
"who is more ignorant: the man who cannot define lightning, or the man who does not respect its natural awesome power?"
I think the keyword here is "just." Anyone who just accepts the existence of God is lazy. You should think about it so you know exactly what you believe and why you believe it. You shouldn't just accept anything because people tell you to. Whatever you decide to believe is fine, but believe it for a reason.
Well said. That's what I was thinking.
One wise man once said: '' Debating with a religious person is like playing chess with a pidgeon; It will knock down all the pieces, excrete feces on the board, fly away and brag about his victory to his friends.''
To all fellow atheist's, don't expect anything to be resolved from this kind of debates. Of course it can be interesting to a point, but there is a limit to which stupidity can be endured. All I'm saying, this post was just a big bunch of trolls trolling each other, without a proper conclusion. So I'll conclude this to you: God does exist but he's existence is bound to our soul; that is our beliefs. Now as to the fact on whether soul exist, my soul is created by tiny electric currents going in my brain. And last time I checked, my God was shopping ingredients for 2012 with the invisible spaghetti monster, which so aptly was mentioned in this thread. How many of you believe in the omnipotent ISM??
ps. the wise man also said that we would have been better off without science
I think its funny how you can inspire such outrage just by mentioning God in a non-offensive context...
All i can say is that when you die, you're going to realize that you were wrong about God. :)
If I'm wrong about God, I'd rather spend the rest of my days in Hell than support him. :) Just saying.
Why would you rather go to hell than support the man who gave you life and created the universe?
Because if you don't believe in God then you don't believe in Hell. Why would you believe in God simply because it might be true?
If God is real, then he is sending a lot of good people to Hell simply because they don't believe in his existence.
I don't believe in God, so I don't support the 'man who gave me life and created the universe.' I honestly believe science makes more sense.
I shouldn't have to be scared into believing in something I don't want to because Hell might exist. I'd rather support MY beliefs and go to Hell for them than give in to other people's beliefs and go to Heaven for them.
@352339 (anon): Then why would you say you would like to go to Hell if you believe it doesn't exist...?
And I believe in God because I have faith, and I realize that there is no possible way life and this universe could have been created unless God did so.
And no, God is not sending a lot of good people to Hell simply because they dont believe in him. Do you have proof of this? If you attended church you would know that non-believers are not automatically banished to hell. God is not cruel- he knows the difference between good and bad. When a person passes away, most people pray for them to be sent to hell- and God listens to these prayes and know sthe effect each person has had on the world, and the people around them. Their faith is not the only thing he considers when they are in purgatory. If you don't support the man who gave you life, then you should not be accepting his gift and living. The point of believing in God and heaven is not to scare yourself into being
good, it's to have FAITH in the person who granted you this gift. You shouldn't fear God, you should love him and be thankful towards him.
"And no, God is not sending a lot of good people to Hell simply because they dont believe in him. Do you have proof of this?" No I don't. Do you have proof of anything you've said in that comment?
The point of faith is not having proof, it's believing, and knowing without having any solid evidence. All religions are based off of faith. I know that God is not evil and banishing people to Hell for being non-believers because I read the bible stories, and attend church and know what kind of person Jesus was. I have more reason to believe he is good, than you would to believe he is not.
You don't know that God is not evil, you don't know what kind of person Jesus was. You can believe as hard as you want but you can't know any of it.
Right, but as I said; You don't know that God IS evil. I have more reason to believe that he wasn't. As i said previously, through the Bible, and the church, and historical documents and artifacts like the shroud of turin, I have faith that my God IS who I believe him to be. I don't see any evidence or reasons that could possibly lead you to believe he is not.
Well one bit of evidence would be all the really bad stuff that happens, but I don't want to get into an argument about the problem of evil. The only point I was trying to make was that I find it really annoying when people state their beliefs, religious or otherwise, as though they were fact.
if there's nothing after death like you seem to think, then no, you won't realize. You're dead, you don't have thoughts.
um no. i think you go to heaven. hence me voting "no way" to this post
sorry, just saw your previous comments and realized you weren't an idiot athiest. Ignore my previous comment.
Hahahahaha, its alright :)
Athiestim is for stupid people. That is really the known fact of the life. you can say your not believe in God but you are just dmning yourself to hll. If you want to go to that place of the devil than keep on worshiping the devil. notice how the word worshiping is like WARshipping?? Your shiping supplies to the devil!! I hate stupid athiests!!
So being atheist, a term which describes someone who believes in NO religion, automatically classifies you as a devil worshipper? Last time I checked Satanism was kind of a religion.
But, if not believing in God does send me to Hell, then I won't mind. Because it means I won't have to put up with people like you who, supposedly, will be sent to Heaven.
Fyi, if you want to tell people how stupid other people are, your post probably shouldn't have spelling/grammatical mistakes.
And it's probably not a good idea to base your argument around the fact that "worshipping" is like "warshipping" since most religions worship someone or something, just not the devil.
You do realize worshipping is the same word used to describe loyalty to God as well, right...? And according to Christianity, God gave people free will: the right to choose. So are you going to call all of us stupid for exercising a right given to us by your God? It's a bit hypocritical...
Well, since you are clearly not a Christian, I'd like to ask you to change your name. You couldn't possibly say you know the love of God when you say you hate a group of people. It really makes me mad all these people who claim to be Christians, yet they swear and hate and are ignorant. Last time I checked the Bible is supposed to be about loving one another and building people up according to their needs.
Sorry but I believe you are just joining the bandwagon if Atheism. I believe even History or science can not refute the Bible. There was once a king of Assyria who has never written in the history of Assyrian empire but was mentioned in the bible. This was King Sargon. Historians didn't believe the Bible because of this. There was never a King Sargon written in the history of Assyria until excavations of his palace at
Dur Sharrukin (Khorsabad) have uncovered his personal annals, in which he recorded in detail his destruction of Samaria. See? Even the bible has what history has been missing. And scientifically speaking, do you know how much minerals in your body can be found on the earth's crust?! This proves that we are made from the clay.
"And scientifically speaking, do you know how much minerals in your body can be found on the earth's crust?! This proves that we are made from the clay." That's a pretty low standard for proof...
And the Bible is very useful as a historical document. No arguments here.
No, I think you meant- Intelligent scientists accept the existence of God.
Don't think he does mean that.
No kidding.
I agree. They have discovered how complex the nature is and how wonderful the anatomical design of animal and human bodies are that this could not be a result of a mere coincidence but a masterpiece of the most intelligent architect, GOD. =)
I don't want to get into an argument about whether or not god exists, but scientists have not discovered something so wonderful that god MUST have created it.
But the fact that scientists have no explaination for SO many things proves that life and the universe is the work of something greater than all of us. Something so great, that science can't even define it.
Science can't define it yet
And they never will.
Well unless you have a time machine, there's really no way to know that. Many of the scientific discoveries we know about today were scoffed at before they were proved.
Right. However, due to the fact that I believe in God, and not science, I think that there will never be a point where scientists have an explaination for everything.When you consider it- it's never going to be possible for them to explain EVERYTHING. They can't stop a simple oil leak, thus they will never be able to comprehend life's complexities.
The oil leak has actually been stopped . . .
I'm not a dumbass. Look how many days it took.
Well then why did you say "they can't stop a simple oil leak"? I don't think we will have the answer to everything tomorrow or the next day, but given enough time anything can be solved.
Because if they were able to figure out how human life truely began, they would have stopped it the minute it started. That was my point.
And as I previously stated- I, based on MY beliefs, do not think that they will ever figure it out. Life and the universe was created by God. His powers are beyond those of any scientists.
Our opinions are different; The end. You can't change my mind- I can't change yours. We're done.
What does knowing how human life began have to do with stopping an oil leak???
Do you only debate with people when you want to change their opinions? Ever heard of expanding your mind by hearing what other people believe? You seem very closed-minded to me.
AS i said, it proves the level of competence of scientists today.
And no. I do not only debate to change opinions, however you can't convince me that God doesn't exist. Nobody will EVER change my opinion about that- so yes. When it comes to religion I am closed minded to a certain point. This debate has gotten us nowhere, and will continue to get us nowhere because I refuse to believe in science over God, and you clearly refuse to believe in God over science.
I never said I don't believe in God. You probably shouldn't make assumptions about people you don't know.
You clearly do debate only to change opinions since you think "this debate has gotten us nowhere" since neither of us has changed our minds. A debate isn't worthless just because nobody changed their mind.
Umm you've been arguing against me for saying that I believe in God. Pretty sure that means you DON'T.
We've repeated ourselves numerous times, and GONE NOWHERE.
Thats why this is debate is over. Not because I had any intent to change your mind, and now I'm disappointed.
You shouldn't make assumptions about people you don't know.
When did I assume something about you? I never said you were disappointed, you did. I simply said what you did: "This debate has gotten us nowhere . . . because you clearly refuse to believe in God over science."
And as I said, I debate with people over some things not to change their mind, but just because it is interesting to see what others believe. I didn't give you a full briefing of my beliefs because it wasn't necessary.
You assumed incorrectly that I only like to debate in order to change people's minds. I also enjoy debating to hear different opinions, however when the debate is going around in circles and the arguments have been repeated, I don't feel the need to continue the debate. It just gets tiring and redundant.
Well, to me it only felt like circles once you started to say "we're done" over and over again. That's probably why it started to tire you out. But to each her own I guess.
No... But, lets just agree to disagree.