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It's crazy to think that if a hundred years ago, something as seemingly insignificant as someone arriving at a location 1 minute earlier or later than they did, could have lead to the current world being an entirely different place than it is now, amirite?

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When I think of this, I think of what I read in one of my History textbooks in high school.

I can't remember the exact details but the backdrop is basically that of Hitler at their height of his power. He had conquered Eastern Europe, he'd JUST finished off France, and now he was heading off into England for a surprise aerial attack. But, just as the German troops were about to lift off, a heavy fog set in and they were not able to go anywhere.

In the meantime, England had time to build up it's defenses since it knew it was the only remaining part of Europe and of course, Hitler lost and was eventually defeated.

But yes, I shudder to think what would have happened if that fog had never settled in because up until then, Hitler had been unstoppable.

@Etherial When I think of this, I think of what I read in one of my History textbooks in high school. I can't remember the...

hmm...if Hitler's Dad had never met Hitler's mom.....
Or the rate of ejaculation was faster/slower.

TalkingRices avatar TalkingRice Yeah You Are +12Reply
@TalkingRice hmm...if Hitler's Dad had never met Hitler's mom..... Or the rate of ejaculation was faster/slower.

or it was a different sperm with slightly different genetic characteristics that made it to the egg. What if, instead of the Y chromosome, it was an X chromosome that got through?

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are +1Reply
@Etherial When I think of this, I think of what I read in one of my History textbooks in high school. I can't remember the...

Actually, England's air force was better than Germany's. I think, because Germany did try to attack civilians in England, but the English had better fighter planes and they were able to fight them off. I might have just butchered history, so if I am mistaken, tell me. I will delete this comment asap!

what if... hitlers dad pulled out! thats a valuable second

affenhausens avatar affenhausen Yeah You Are +4Reply

Watch Mr. Nobody, it explores this concept beautifully.

Name a specific situation that could be used as an example, please.

DanielJamess avatar DanielJames Yeah You Are +1Reply
@DanielJames Name a specific situation that could be used as an example, please.

Your mother arrived 1 minute late to the restaurant. But you see, she would have met your father if she were on time because he just so happened to have walked out at exactly 12:33:16. You were never born. Your great great great grand child that was destined to find a cure to the common cold was never born. Hence, change.

@WillAkana Your mother arrived 1 minute late to the restaurant. But you see, she would have met your father if she were on...

I think even though some things might change, I feel like the big things would still be the same, for example as @823422 (WillAkana): said about the parents meeting. Maybe they won't meet at that moment, but they might meet somewhere else. And even though the child they consummate would be different, maybe another persons great great great grand child might achieve the same feat.

I've never seen Final Destination, but from what I've heard about it I think it's accurate. In case you're not familiar with it. It's about people who escape death, but then death chases them around. So if they avoid going into the car, because they knew a car crash will happen, then they choke on a piece of bread and die. So if they don't die one way, they will die another way. I'm not sure if they actually die, that's just how I understood it

@KickAss I think even though some things might change, I feel like the big things would still be the same, for example as...

Just like how if Thomas Edison was never bornyou'd wonder if we would have ever had the light bulbright?

Oh, how mysterious...

@WillAkana Just like how if Thomas Edison was never bornyou'd wonder if we would have ever had the light bulbright? Oh...

Actually if he was never born, then we wouldn't know there is a light bulb to wonder about... kidding, but I feel like someone else with the same dilemma and enough dedication, would have invented it.
Like sometimes, I come on here to make a post that's SOOO original, but I check to see if anyone else has thought of it before and I SEE it, just worded differently and I'm like, "NOOOOOO" but I feel like, put in the same situation there are only a limited amount of reactions different people can have to the same thing. So my thinking is that, I probably saw something that made me think of my post and someone else had maybe seen the same thing only sooner than me? So if another person is put in the same situation as Thomas Edison when he first decided to do something about all the darkness, then they might have done the same thing, it might be worse or better, but the invention would still be around.

@KickAss Actually if he was never born, then we wouldn't know there is a light bulb to wonder about... kidding, but I feel...

"Every time a man puts a new idea across, he finds ten men who thought of it before he did - but they only thought of it. "

That should sum it up :]

@WillAkana "Every time a man puts a new idea across, he finds ten men who thought of it before he did - but they only...

@823932 (WillAkana): I mean I understand what you're saying too and what I said was something I thought of for a long time, long before I saw this post and I'm not saying what I'm saying would for sure happen either. I just think that the world wouldn't be significantly different, because what one person doesn't do another will take it's place. I feel that the universe is always trying to keep balance.

Also here's a quote for ya, "Necessity is the father of invention."

I wouldn't mind debating this, I am interested in what you have to say about this, if you don't mind hearing my opinion back

@KickAss @823932 (WillAkana): I mean I understand what you're saying too and what I said was something I thought of for a...

Sure, I wouldn't mind. I'm not sure how good a debater I'd be, but I'd give it a try XD

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@MrRite Sure, I wouldn't mind. I'm not sure how good a debater I'd be, but I'd give it a try XD

I'm really not that good either, but okay. So I think that things for the most part will be the same for the most part, you think it might change. Give me reasons, for why things might change.

@KickAss I'm really not that good either, but okay. So I think that things for the most part will be the same for the most...

Well, 3 reasons off the top of my head.

1. If no one thought of a particular world changing thing, there's no guarantee that someone else would. It might take a certain kind of person that would only have come under exactly the right circumstances, which is pretty much what every single one of us are. The odds of you or I or anyone on this earth existing right as we are now are incalculably slim. The same goes for people like Eli Whitney, Albert Einstein or Nikola Tesla.

2. Even if someone else DID think of the same thing. How long would it be before that happened? 5 minutes? 5 years? 500 years? I think that even having it come significantly later would definitely have caused a different world than today. Imagine if the man who invented the automobile wasn't born and the next man in line to invent it wouldn't be born for another century? Where would we be now? Not here, that's for sure

(cont'd)

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@KickAss I'm really not that good either, but okay. So I think that things for the most part will be the same for the most...

3. As WillAkana's quote summed up nicely, even if someone DID think of the invention, there's no guarantee they'd have the motivation, resources or knowhow to make it a reality or even know anyone who did.

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@MrRite 3. As WillAkana's quote summed up nicely, even if someone DID think of the invention, there's no guarantee they'd...

Okay, you do bring up a good point, the fact that everyone is different. However I think circumstances bring people together. For example if you see a man getting hit by a car, you might call 911 or maybe you might not. But someone else would or maybe they might not. I'm saying that if you don't call 911 then someone else will. You're saying that the next person (who would call 911) might not see the accident until maybe it's too late. (Simply put) But here's my point, maybe another person who wouldn't have called 911 (out of generosity) might end up calling because he gets tired of hearing this man yelling, (one who isn't the first or second person might call 911)

@MrRite 3. As WillAkana's quote summed up nicely, even if someone DID think of the invention, there's no guarantee they'd...

I feel my quote is a good response Wills quote, because when it becomes necessary, someone WILL eventually say, "Hey I'm tired of doing my work without any interruptions, I think I will invent something to disrupt my concentration (and thus television was invented) well this would be in a parallel universe where the guy who originally invented the tv (because I don't know... to get word out quicker?) was never born.

My quote is also a good reply to your first argument, because for the most part, inventions are invented, because of necessity. I think more than one person will need the same thing and out of all those people who will need that one thing, one person will step out and say, I will solve this problem for everyone else. Because that's what originally happened, right?

My argument is a little unclear, because I mixed it up and I didn't write which part is a response to which part of your argument.

@KickAss I feel my quote is a good response Wills quote, because when it becomes necessary, someone WILL eventually say...

Good points as well, but people don't always come together and a problem does not always breed a solution. I've read many stories about people who were clearly in need of emergency services in very public areas where no one called 911 or did anything at all. They simply figured that SOMEONE would do something or they didn't know what to do. Same deal here. Either the people with the invention idea wouldn't know what to do to bring it to mainstream attention or would just sit back and wait for someone else "eventually" to do it because it's easier that way. Also, how long have people been "tired" of many things but not done anything towards actually solving the problem? Take one very popular complaint. Taxes. Some governments excessively tax their people. People are tired of this. Are most of them doing anything about it? Nope. Has there ever been a successful protest of taxes here in the US since waaaaay back in the boston tea party? Nope.

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@MrRite Good points as well, but people don't always come together and a problem does not always breed a solution. I've...

Well see you have to take into account that what ever one person does, that person can also not do. So if the person who's in a car accident was meant to die, then the person who originally might call 911 might decide not to in this situation (for some mystical reason) then the people after that person just might be lazy and uncaring people. And yes I realize I'm putting a lot of faith in people by saying, that someone else would invent it, but I think that if the original person got up to do it, then there should also be someone else who is willing and able to do the same thing. About taxes... not really sure. I mean I don't like taxes, but from what I learned they go to very good use... for example to put golden toilets for government officials....

Hey I'm enjoying this argument, but I have to get up at 5.5 AM today to get to work, so I need to get my sleepy time. If you reply I will try to reply from work teehee (if I can) or after... which sounds more likely....

@KickAss Well see you have to take into account that what ever one person does, that person can also not do. So if the...

Indeed, I have as well. Well, enjoy your rest. I'll leave this here for you to reply whenever.

You have brought up good arguments once again, but you've still yet to really counter my second point, so I'll reiterate. Suppose the first person to invent the automobile wasn't born. Now, it could be that the next person down the line to invent it would be only a month or a week away from doing so. However, if they were a century away, where would we be? Certainly horse drawn carriages couldn't lug all the tons and tons of goods needed for our modern cities to thrive anywhere near efficiently. Sure, we'd get it eventually, but we've still been stuck in a much less industrious society for 100 years now. That's a lot of progress lost. Because of something seemingly so minor happened 100 years ago, we are now 100 years behind on technology. I think if in 2010 we were living just like the people in 1910 were because something revolutionary didn't happen (cont'd)

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@MrRite Indeed, I have as well. Well, enjoy your rest. I'll leave this here for you to reply whenever. You have brought up...

I would think that would qualify as the world being an entirely different place than our current 2010.

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@KickAss Well see you have to take into account that what ever one person does, that person can also not do. So if the...

It doesn't have to be an invention, either. Suppose someone showed up somewhere a minute earlier than they did? Suppose they saw something that made them want to change the world? Suppose they, because of one minute, met just the right person who would help them into a position of power? What if this one person then became so powerful that he managed to have influence on the entire world, be it through influential words or military force? Your country could very well be a dictatorship thanks to one little spark struck by the events of one minute. Your country could now be much larger, due to your leader having conquered other countries and claiming it as a part of theirs. Perhaps your leader could have lead a movement that successfully ended the religious wars in the middle east. All because they were in the right place at the right time.

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@KickAss I feel my quote is a good response Wills quote, because when it becomes necessary, someone WILL eventually say...

Once again, I'm not saying this absolutely would happen. You could be completely right and there's some force in the universe that keeps things going the way they're meant to no matter what. All I'm saying is, and this is a very simple idea, what if there isn't? Not "I know there isn't" just "What if?"

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@MrRite Once again, I'm not saying this absolutely would happen. You could be completely right and there's some force in...

Haha, I completely understand, this is all very theoretical.

My response to your second point. You are saying, there could be a time gap between when something is supposed to happen and when it actually happens. Here it is well with the automobile it's a little confuzzling, because I really don't know who invented it, but for the sake of this argument lets say Karl Benz. I'm pretty sure there were other models of cars before him, just not in the same fashion as that. Let's say Karl's (for the sake of this argument) job was going around telling people stuff. After having to deal with all the other less powerful automobiles that gave him a difficult time he decides to create something, the automobile! Now let's say he disappears from the time space continuum and he never had. Now where Karl would have been, there's a void. Or is there? See without Karl being there, his employees would probably hire someone else. And this person having to face the same difficulties...

@MrRite Once again, I'm not saying this absolutely would happen. You could be completely right and there's some force in...

Decides to create... an automobile! But this poor chap, doesn't have the know how of how to create one. So maybe he goes around trying to find someone who does (maybe Karl of a parallel dimension, who is a blacksmith?) and gets that person to invent this thing for him. All that summed up is me saying that, if the person knows what s/he wants, then they will find ways to achieve this goal. Some may cheat, some may kill, or some may just have the natural talent to achieve that goal, but I feel like one way or another they will end up getting what they want, if they work hard (and smart) enough at it.

I had an extremely long day today, it was fruitful though. Anyways I'm off once again and I'll respond to you whenever I get the chance... after you respond that is.

@KickAss Decides to create... an automobile! But this poor chap, doesn't have the know how of how to create one. So maybe he...

I may be a bit of a pessimist, but I think you're putting a bit too much faith in humanity to assume that if someone didn't invent something, it would have just been invented anyway. If this is the case, why wasn't the car invented 50 or 100 years earlier? Certainly there was a necessity for it. If this is the case, then all possible inventions should be out now. There is so much that could be accomplished quicker, so much hassle that could be avoided by having an instantaneous matter transporter. Even more so than is avoided by use of the automobile. Why has no one invented this yet? If it's so easy for just anyone to either invent it themselves or come to the idea and find someone who can, why isn't that invented? What about worldwide wireless energy? Certainly it would be nice to have cellphones that never run out of power and get rid of dangerous electrical outlets and chords. (cont'd)

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@KickAss Decides to create... an automobile! But this poor chap, doesn't have the know how of how to create one. So maybe he...

You may say these aren't out because they aren't remotely feasible with our current technology, but that's been said again and again and again about a great deal of other inventions right before someone found a way to make it happen that no one had thought of before.

A related point I would like to make. Look at Nikola Tesla. He was a genius unlike anyone of his time, and some argue, even of OUR time. He invented and patented a great many things that are now responsible for our modern world. AC electricity, the spark plug and even many of his patents were used in the creation of radio transmission, just to name a few things. If he wasn't born, it would almost certainly take divine intervention for other people to create everything he did within 50-100 years.

Also, you didn't respond to my point about the person gaining power to influence the world, rather than inventing something.

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@MrRite You may say these aren't out because they aren't remotely feasible with our current technology, but that's been...

Hmm, well I guess you are right. There are exceptional minds out there whose accomplishments can't really be paralleled. Yeah and if people like them can't be replaced then I guess I can't really say anyone else is replaceable.

This kind of felt like a chess game, (I used to play (and was actually good)) but you foresaw my move, blocked, and struck. That's check mate for me though. Good game!

@KickAss Hmm, well I guess you are right. There are exceptional minds out there whose accomplishments can't really be...

Indeed. I must say, you actually made me think even deeper into this topic than I did when originally posting it. Thank you for challenging me and forcing me to become more thoughtful. I enjoyed this very much! See ya around

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are +1Reply
@MrRite Indeed. I must say, you actually made me think even deeper into this topic than I did when originally posting it...

It is I who should be thanking YOU! For helping me see a new side of a topic I once thought I knew so well. But yeah thanks and I hope we can have a discussion like this again in the future.

@KickAss Actually if he was never born, then we wouldn't know there is a light bulb to wonder about... kidding, but I feel...

True, it's possible. However, you just can't be sure. I understand what you're saying, but it's only a "maybe just quite possibly it would happen anyway" You can't be sure that it would just happen anyway, just like I can't be sure it wouldn't. My post said nothing definite. It said something so minor COULD lead to a completely different world. It might not have, but you can't deny the frightening and intriguing possibility that if one person had done something (or hadn't done something) seemingly insignificant, that the world as we know it might not even exist. Just something to ponder.

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are 0Reply
@MrRite True, it's possible. However, you just can't be sure. I understand what you're saying, but it's only a "maybe just...

I'm enjoying how both of you are staying polite. I'm sick of trolls who resort to insulting each other. This discussion has made a GREAT piece of reading, because they're both logical arguments. :)

@Annabel I'm enjoying how both of you are staying polite. I'm sick of trolls who resort to insulting each other. This...

Well I'm not so kind. Stop enjoying it! Kidding, you should share your opinion though, especially if you think we're missing something.

@WillAkana Just like how if Thomas Edison was never bornyou'd wonder if we would have ever had the light bulbright? Oh...

Tesla would have invented it. Now, if TESLA wasn't born.... shudders at the tought

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are +1Reply
@KickAss I think even though some things might change, I feel like the big things would still be the same, for example as...

But what if the world is more like The Butterfly Effect, where if one little thing changes then everything changes?
That's how I think it works anyway

Lindss avatar Linds Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Linds But what if the world is more like The Butterfly Effect, where if one little thing changes then everything...

Hmm, I never saw that, but! If I did this is what I would say (going off of what you said jeje) actually I have no idea. Explain to me your thought process.

@KickAss Hmm, I never saw that, but! If I did this is what I would say (going off of what you said jeje) actually I have no...

oh haha, I recommend it it's actually really good. There are two endings though and one is much better than the other. Well okay, so in the movie Evan has these blackouts where he cant remember anything that happens during them. To help him cope, he was told to keep journals to help him try to remember. When he got into college, he reread them and found he could go back and experience what happened during the blackout and even change what he had orginally done. So he goesy back and changes what he says to his friends father at one point, and the entire outcome of their lives change because of what he said to that person and how they reacted. So because he threatened someone not to do something, the way that person acted changed which changed the lives of those around him. So with that one instance being different, everything was different.
The movie made a lot of sense to me lol.

Lindss avatar Linds Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Linds oh haha, I recommend it it's actually really good. There are two endings though and one is much better than the...

That actually sounds really interesting. I loved Donnie Darko, have you seen it? If you haven't you should then after you should go to donniedarkofilm.com, it's pretty cool. But yeah something about what you said reminded me of that film

@KickAss That actually sounds really interesting. I loved Donnie Darko, have you seen it? If you haven't you should then...

I absolutely LOVE that movie. Haha its great. I had to watch it a couple times before I got the full jist of what it all meant lol, but it was incredible.

Lindss avatar Linds Yeah You Are 0Reply
@WillAkana Your mother arrived 1 minute late to the restaurant. But you see, she would have met your father if she were on...

It always makes me glad to see smart people who just understand. Thank you, sir. Also, exchange cure for cold to a world changing invention such as nuclear fusion or an instantaneous teleporter and so on and so forth. Once again, thanks for getting it.

MrRites avatar MrRite Yeah You Are +1Reply

The Butterfly Effect! Amazing short story. Not as good of a movie.

@lexip94 The Butterfly Effect! Amazing short story. Not as good of a movie.

Agreed. The movie was like. An hr and half ending with a 'wtf, what was the point of me wasting an hr and a half!!!'.

A short story was the best way to tell this tale, rather than drag it out to movie length.

I was so frustrated at the end of the movie because the extra padding was unneeded, and I felt like it was a waste of time for the message it was providing.

@Annabel The one when he killed himself in the womb.

Ah okay, yeah I didnt like that one. In the other version, he goes back to when they first met as kids and told her if she ever talked to him again he would kill her whole family, that way she and her brother would leave and live with their mother. It ends with him and Lenny lighting his old journals on fire.

Lindss avatar Linds Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Linds Ah okay, yeah I didnt like that one. In the other version, he goes back to when they first met as kids and told her...

@825997 (Linds): NOOOOOO!!!! I was going to watch itttt. You ruined the ending for meeee. Why did I keep reading?!?

the person probably arrived late for a reason. God has ways of making things work out how they're supposed to.

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