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It is sad that because of todays society my girlfriend is surprised that I haven't tried to push her sexually. A world where guys are expected to be sexually immoral and to take the girls innocence as well is not how it is supposed to be, amirite?

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It's sad that today's society views something as beautiful as sex as "immoral" and thinks a girl is only "innocent" if she hasn't had a penis inside of her.

Cuban_Bs avatar Cuban_B No Way +23Reply
@Cuban_B It's sad that today's society views something as beautiful as sex as "immoral" and thinks a girl is only "innocent"...

I totally agree with this. As long as it's consensual and safe, really, what is so bad about sex? We shouldn't treat it as some kind of filthy, immoral, heinous act. It's just a thing people do.

Also, OP, this isn't really a problem with "today's" society. If anything, women have far more choice in who they have sex with in today's society. For most recent centuries, women were basically sold to whomever their father wanted them to be wed, and they just had to have sex whenever said husband decided. Things are better now for women than they were before.

@Chou I totally agree with this. As long as it's consensual and safe, really, what is so bad about sex? We shouldn't...

Chou, OP isn't talking about today's society having a problem with women. He's talking about how there's a problem with today's society because it has a problem with men.

Emperorerrors avatar Emperorerror Yeah You Are +3Reply
@Emperorerror Chou, OP isn't talking about today's society having a problem with women. He's talking about how there's a problem...

Oops. Did I totally miss the point of this post? I thought it was saying there was a problem because women EXPECT to be pressured into sex by their boyfriends (and also that somehow this is different from any other time period)? :S

If I made a mistake... whoops. Sorry, folks. :)

@Chou Oops. Did I totally miss the point of this post? I thought it was saying there was a problem because women EXPECT...

That is the point of the post. Just the way your previous statement sounded made it seem like you thought that meant it was something sexist towards women, when it's in fact something sexist towards men.

Emperorerrors avatar Emperorerror Yeah You Are +1Reply
@Emperorerror That is the point of the post. Just the way your previous statement sounded made it seem like you thought that...

Oh, well, I DO think it's sexist towards women. I mean, if being pressured into sex is so common for women (as it has been for most of recorded history) that they just expect it as the default, that's really saying something about sexual harassment towards women. But yes, it does hurt men too, because sexism always hurts everybody (sorry if that sounds sarcastic; I do actually mean it). :

@Chou Oh, well, I DO think it's sexist towards women. I mean, if being pressured into sex is so common for women (as it...

First, your original post actually sounded like you didn't think that it's sexist towards women, despite the post seeming to you to say that it was.

Also, I have to disagree with you. I think it's only slightly true that men pressure women into sex a lot, just as it's only it's only a slightly higher rate of thievery by blacks. It's just prejudice, something based on truth, but very very little amounts of it. But in my opinion, just as in yours, society is definitely sexist towards men in this regard, assuming that they'll pressure women into sex.

Hopefully that wasn't too confusing.

Emperorerrors avatar Emperorerror Yeah You Are +1Reply
@Emperorerror First, your original post actually sounded like you didn't think that it's sexist towards women, despite the post...

Nah, it was clear, don't worry. And I definitely agree with you. Like I said, sexism hurts all genders. The problem in OP's post emerges from the dichotomy that men should want sex at any cost, and women should refuse sex at any oppurtunity. Naturally, it means anyone who deviates (which, to be honest, is going to be most people as these are two extremes) is going to be seen negatively.
Still, PART of this problem is people like OP using the word "innocence" to refer to virginity (virginity is a concept which, let's face it, exists solely because people think sex is some 'rite of passage' for males, and some horrible purity-stealer for women). Sex shouldn't be seen as something dirty and evil, yet women are constantly told that being a "slut" will make them disgusting, of little worth, cheap or otherwise devalued. Men aren't taught this so it seems like logical progression that they'd be ready for sex in a relationship before a woman - they aren't risking any sort of social standing by doing it. A woman has more factors to consider.

(Also, sorry if this post seems a little haphazard and poorly-written, my thoughts are all jumbled up at the moment, haha). :S

@Chou Nah, it was clear, don't worry. And I definitely agree with you. Like I said, sexism hurts all genders. The problem...

It seems clear what you're saying. I definitely agree with most of it. In your first paragraph when you're explaining about the extremes that each sex is expected to be a part of, I think you explained it really well. At least, I feel like it's more clear to me, and I already thought I understood the entire situation, haha.

I would consider sex a 'rite of passage', except also for women, not just men. I'm unsure as to whether you thought this as well, or thought it wasn't a rite of passage, or a loss of innocence - it was just something that happened.

I believe that innocence was probably originally the defining term for the time before you lost your virginity because before that you didn't really know about sex or anything like that - at least hundreds of years ago. Nowadays, people are exposed to sex and everything related far before they actually experience it themselves, so it's not so much a loss of innocence, and, as such, shouldn't be called that. Yet it still is, for women. I think that might be because society considers women's exposure to such things lesser and a younger age, and even women themselves think of it that way. (continued next comment)

Emperorerrors avatar Emperorerror Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Chou Nah, it was clear, don't worry. And I definitely agree with you. Like I said, sexism hurts all genders. The problem...

Also, to be honest I've never actually heard girls being called sluts all over the place for having sex, and it's also not seen as something dirty and evil by most people. I think people assume that's what it should be like because that's how it's portrayed by the media. And, as such, despite nobody mentioning it, a girl herself might be dissuaded from having sex, thinking that everyone would call her a slut, immoral, etc. When in fact everyone else wouldn't, they just think that's what everyone else thinks, like the original girl. So in conclusion, I think women are risking imaginary social standing by doing it, but it seems real to them because of the media.

Your post wasn't that confusing. I can understand that your thoughts were all jumbled up, as are mine :p. So hopefully this post isn't as you warned me yours could be.

Emperorerrors avatar Emperorerror Yeah You Are -1Reply
@Emperorerror Also, to be honest I've never actually heard girls being called sluts all over the place for having sex, and it's...

Hmm, perhaps it varies from place to place, then. People where I live will call women sluts for anything as regular as wearing a slightly short skirt. And the media does play an important part in socialisation, so it is still a problem that women are being sent the message that having sex is something bad.

But yeah, the media does exaggerate everything (people who make films must just live in some bizarre pseudo-society.) People are just exposed to it so much, I suppose they begin to internalise it.

Anyhow, thank you for debating so intelligently! This has been an enlightening conversation. :)

Yes! It's so irritating how society is so prejudice towards men at the current time.

Emperorerrors avatar Emperorerror Yeah You Are +1Reply

And I suppose it was today's society, and not her past experiences or kinkiness, that caused this.

She probably thinks you're gay.

This sounds too traditional. Like all men should be chivalrous and the women should be princesses. That's a retarded way to have a relationship.

@AdonisBatheus This sounds too traditional. Like all men should be chivalrous and the women should be princesses. That's a...

There's nothing wrong with having basic manners and respect for one's values in a relationship.

Anonymous +22Reply
@There's nothing wrong with having basic manners and respect for one's values in a relationship.

But it's sexist. Men shouldn't have to act a certain way, nor should women. Just get along well.

And yes the whole chivalry thing is sexist.

@AdonisBatheus But it's sexist. Men shouldn't have to act a certain way, nor should women. Just get along well. And yes the whole...

True, men and women shouldn't each have to conform to a stereotypical "role" in a relationship, but there's nothing sexist about respecting a partner's values, such as in the case of OP not pressuring his girlfriend for sex. Having respect for values is a major part of getting along in a relationship as well. It's less about chivalry and more about having that basic consideration for your partner and your relationship with them.

Anonymous +13Reply
@True, men and women shouldn't each have to conform to a stereotypical "role" in a relationship, but there's nothing...

Yes but chivalry is sexist. Treat the girlfriend like a queen and your reward is...her dating you. I guess. She gives nothing back unless she holds to some girl version of chivalry.

I was poking at chivalry, nothing more. That's what the post gave me the vibe of.

@AdonisBatheus Yes but chivalry is sexist. Treat the girlfriend like a queen and your reward is...her dating you. I guess. She...

Yeah, but I don't think conforming to chivalry was the point of the post. Again, it's all about basic respect that works both ways. The last statement could easily have been "a world where a person has a complete lack of consideration for their partner isn't how it was supposed to be." I don't think OP's point necessarily was that all men should conform to this sexist role you describe. I agree when you say chivalry is sexist, I'm just arguing why this post can go beyond chivalry (why it shouldn't necessarily give off a "chivalrous" vibe) and why respecting values shouldn't be seen as just a sexist, chivalrous act.

Anonymous +3Reply
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