It's your body; do whatever the hell you want with it as long as it doesn't harm other bodies. :)

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Exactly. But with abortion you're killing another body.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well I have to disagree with that :L In my opinion, an embryo isn't really a "person".

by Anonymous 13 years ago

People are living organisms, right? There are seven characteristics of a living organism: 1. Composed of cells 2. Have different levels of organization 3. Use energy 4. Respond to environment 5. Grow 6. Reproduce 7. Adapt to environment Now tell me, which of these does an embryo not do?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I really don't want to get in an argument with you. I said that was just my opinion.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You don't have absolute freedom to do whatever you want. If you did, we would live in an anarchical society and government wouldn't exist. The government does have the right to control somethings like drugs, suicide, and other serious and dangerous problems. However, the government does not have the right to force a woman to give birth when she isn't ready because that is just cruel and ridiculous.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

You shouldn't have to raise the child and be a parent but there's always adoption which is always a good alternative to abortion. Plus how do you expect the government to "control suicide"?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I guess they could pass a law but they'd have a hard time enforcing it. Adoption is a great option. Women who are considering abortion should look into that as well. The more options women have, the better off they will be.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Exactly. There's already laws in place helping people who attempt suicide, but it doesn't exactly help those who have already committed suicide. Also, I don't agree with abortion considering there are plenty of parents who try to conceive but cannot, jussayin.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I think the adoption system is really messed up. How come there are thousands of orphan children on the streets of India and thousands of gay couples who really want children but can't adopt them? I think the problem with adoption has to do with international laws, not abortion.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

its illegal to try to commit suicide

by Anonymous 13 years ago

In some countries, if you attempt suicide they hang you

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Doesn't that just achieve the intended goal?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

exactly O_O

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Eating disorders are diseases. How can a person endorse a disease?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

...They endorse starving yourself and force vomiting

by Anonymous 14 years ago

You're implying that it's a personal choice.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

It's a personal choice to make yourself throw up, no?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

No... Bulimia is a disease...

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Excatly! It's not really a choice, it's a symptom.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Kinda wanna punch that person, like would you really think "Oh hey I wanna overeat and cause myself physical pain because I want a sense of control in my life." Or that like people with BPD are choosing mood swings

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I know. I don't really feel sorry for people with eating disorders. I know that's really cruel of me but I just can't understand why anybody would be that stupid.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I've had friends go through stuff like that so I can kind of understand but yeah it is pretty ridiculous.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

It is not a disease. What a stupid fucking thing to say

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Bulimia and BPD are NOTHING alike so don't you dare even go there. Have you ever lived with BPD or lived with any one who had BPD? I've had the pleasure of enduring both. Bulimia is often times exactly what you're saying it's not...a person is deciding they want to control their eating and that's how they're choosing to do it. "The bottom line, however, is that bulimia and anorexia are the misuse of food to resolve emotional problems." -http://www.empoweredparents.com/1eatingdisorders/bulimia.htm You don't choose BPD. You can choose to start being bulimic or anorexic. End of story.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Bulimia is not self-inflicted; it's a psychological disorder, and a disease just like any other in which they seriously cannot help it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm not saying it's always self inflicted, but more often than not it is and gets out of control. Bottom line, more people choose to be bulimic than choose to be Bi-polar. If you're bi-polar, you don't ever have the choice to prevent it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm against abortions, but this the stupidest logic i've seen.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

How is it stupid?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

you're basically saying that people who say "it's my body, it's my choice" advocate all those things you mentioned. Which is the hugest, most ignorant generalization I've seen. Not to mention that if were true; we'd have a lot more cases of anorexia, bulimia etc., than we currently do.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

By this level of logic Pro Life people support slavery then? As you are forcing the mother to work looking after the kid. In an over populated world with a downward economy that has an adoption system that is slow and flawed then terminating the pregnancy as it starts to develope is no worse the a condom or the man ejaculating on the floor.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

At least with adoption they're alive and usually in foster homes or adoption agencies and they have a chance at life. I'm not saying the mother has to raise the baby, but I'm saying she should at least birth it. And your analogy makes no sense because with a condom or ejaculation fertilization hasn't occurred yet.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Ever met people who've been in and out of foster homes and care homes? So many of these kids have had bad lives and are mentally affected by the ordeal. I'm sorry but I do not consider that just.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

And do you know how many of them accomplished amazing things in their lifetime? I don't consider a mother deciding to just kill a fetus just either.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

It is a lesser of two evils. Less lives potentiall ruined and damaged. The costs financially and mentally of giving birth and even raising the child are crippling. The mental angst of the child and goverments costs to raise the child from carer to carer. I am not saying treat it like birth control but I am saying it is an alternative. If pregnant from rape or when too young then these are acceptable reasons. If by chance and bad luck contraception fails and you cannot afford nor accomidate then it is fair. What if is the bane of human life.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Ever met someone who was adopted and led a perfectly normal and successful life? I know many people who were given wonderful opportunities and done wonderful things with their lives because they were given a chance.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

How many of 10 adopted children are successful and normal? Go through a prison, find out what the percent of adopted people are there. Just because there are some successful people, doesnt mean the flipside isn't much more likely

by Anonymous 13 years ago

How many of orphened or poor children are criminals? How many "normal", well off children turn out being criminals (ever hear of embezzling money? Or go look up how many dentists commit suicide)? How many of 10 children born in the ghetto are successful and normal? You do with your life what you do with it. Your life is your responsibility. Once you're old enough to make your own decisions, you find a way to get what you want out of it, or you don't. But you have noone to blame but yourself.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Don't you think it's cruel to force some poor little 13 year old girl to endure the pain and embarrassment of premature pregnancy and risk her life painfully delivering a baby she never wanted in the first place? It seems ridiculous to make someone go all through that to save a clump of cells the size of a peanut.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

And you think there aren't emotional and fiscal damages from abortion as well? @1125319 (fEMMAnist): Since when are 13 year olds pregnant?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Giving birth to a child is way more emotionally, physically, and financially damaging than having an abortion. Abortion is safer and way cheaper than childbirth. I can't imagine how getting an abortion would be more emotionally damaging than spending hours painfully shoving a person through your vagina. To answer your question, 13 year olds have gotten pregnant since homo sapiens first walked the earth in the paleolithic era 400k-250k years ago.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Your last sentence was epic.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Thanks!

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Also...have you ever met someone who had an abortion and was tormented by the what-if's that followed? Especially to a young mind, that can be hard to handle.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Sorry, but some poor 13 year old girl should not be having sex. If she's mature enough to be having sex, she's mature enough to accept the consequences.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

That is HILARIOUS. Let's think about this, shall we? When someone has sex, it does NOT necessarily mean that she is ready for it or mentally mature. I'm not even talking about rape, which is a whole other issue. I'm talking about being bombarded with peer pressure and with sex from every vehicle of media our society has to offer (please don't even talk about how parents can control that shit because TEENS WILL ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO CIRCUMVENT CONTROLS). Generally, girls who have sex (i.e. engage in risky behavior) at such a young age aren't the girls who had a comprehensive sex education about contraception and were taught to have both self-respect and self-confidence NOT derived from sex. Do you expect that these BARELY-pubescent girls are responsible enough to carry out a healthy pregnancy? Think prenatal doctor appointments, exercising, eating healthily, suffering through the nausea/muscle pains, and even just asking for help they need from adults.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

thank you thank you thank you for pointing out the society issue. even though we're apparently on different sides of the abortion issue, i'm glad someone agrees with me that the media/society is the root of the problem! abortion is really just a band-aid we use to cover the REAL issues, which nobody wants to actually address. and thanks for pointing out that parents really can't prevent their children from having sex--sorry, but they can't! which is why they need to be educated about CONTRACEPTION, & preventing a pregnancy rather than terminating one. or even better, taught why abstinence until they ARE emotionally mature & responsible enough to have sex is a good idea, not just "because mommy says so." getting off my soapbox.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

By condemning abortion (even with an “except for rape, incest, risk-to-the-mother” caveat), you’ve successfully turned pregnancy and the ensuing child into PUNISHMENTS or “consequences.” GOOD ONE, SHERLOCK. Let’s give the responsibility of carrying and delivering a baby to girls&boys who can’t even comprehend the gravity of the situation and would rather trade it for a chance to touch Justin Bieber’s left shoe. Pregnant teens can’t just go hang out or finish high school or apply to college far, far away or freaking BE KIDS. Can you imagine the feeling of resentment that causes? The feeling of having your dreams cut short? Those feelings were certainly enough motivation for women to try to miscarry when abortion was still illegal. You hear about falling down stairs, coat hangers, dumpster babies, or deliberately taking drugs/alcohol. That shit still happens in areas where abortions aren’t allowed or when girls are too afraid to ...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Tl;dr: Sexual maturity is not emotional, mental maturity. Don’t turn pregnancy/children into punishments. If they really don’t want the baby, they will find a way – with or without the procedural safety of a clinic. fuck i can't believe your one comment got me this irritated.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Having sex at age thirteen is probably a very terrifying experience. Telling that thirteen year old to suck it and forcing her to give birth against her will wouldn't do anything to help the poor girl and will probably only screw her up further.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

A-fucking-men.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

If having sex at age 13 is a terrifying experience WHY ARE THEY HAVING IT?! If you're a smart kid and know the consequences of having a child, you rise above the peer pressure and everything the TV and movies and whatever tell you to do. I did. My friends did. And those that didn't? Well, they have kids now. Sex education is very important, as is learning about contraception and the consequences. Fix the root of the problem and we wouldn't be having this argument, as was previously stated. I didn't necessarily mean it as a punishment but at the same time, it's sort of like a lesson learned the hard way (which I guess can be viewed as a punishment, everyone sees things differently). I would use an analogy here but anyone is going to say they don't even compare so I'm not going to even start it. True, it's a really shitty lesson to have to learn, but it's a lesson none the less.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I agree that thirteen year olds would be unwise to have sex. That is not what I was debating. However, punishing thirteen year olds for having sex by forcing them to give birth to a child won't help them or teach them a lesson. Besides, it's not the government's job to teach thirteen year olds about sexual responsibility, that's the job of the schools and the parents. Handing out babies as punishment for sexual behavior would just hurt the girl and the baby. Also you seem more set on punishing girls than defending the right of the fetus which seems totally backward. I am not defending sex at age thirteen, I am defending ever person's right to control her health, body, and future.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It turned into punishing the girls but that wasn't the original intent. Every fetus has a right to turn into a human. A healthy body with a future. The government controls so many things as it is, especially with the new healthcare bills, I think if we have a unified healthcare provided by the government (which I'm not for, but for the sake of arguement) the government should be allowed to say what they're going to be covering. Quite frankly, I don't want my hard earned tax money going to kill babies that I may one day want to adopt. Also, the government controls curriculum etc. so they should be requiring sex ed classes, but that's another debate for another day. As someone else said, a 13 year olds body is capable of bouncing back. Sometimes, abortion can be more harmful than having the child. Also, if you abort too late, the fetus can live anyway. Go look up abortion survivors. Or memoirs of people who have had abortions and have been haunted forever.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

so i agree about the gov't advocating sex ed classes, but you do realize that those who are most against abortion are the very devout/religious communities, who then are the ones that just allow abstinence only sex ed (which is FAIL) and ban handing out or teaching about contraception. something's gotta give.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

also, the whole point of my argument is that these kids who have sex AREN'T the smart ones who rise above peer pressure. they didn't necessarily have the privilege you/your friends did of strong role models or sex ed or WHATEVER. why do you think teen pregnancy usually happens to people whose parents were teen parents too? and to teens in poorer communities?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Ok, I agree with the poorer communities/learning from heritage and the religious communities, however, there are many people who are not devoutly religious people, for example myself, who are just appaled by the murder of a life that wasn't even given the chance to live. I believe it was you above who argued that the kids can't be kids, but you're also taking a childhood away from some small person who can't defend itself. Have you ever seen a video of an abortion? It's simply horrifying.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

not if that "clump of cells the size of a peanut" is an individual, unique person with their own DNA that deserves rights. i don't care whether you're a clump of cells the size of a peanut or a clump of cells that's six feet tall; a person is a person is a person is a person. end of story.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I think what you meant to say is "I don't care whether you're a clump of cells the size of a peanut or a clump of cells that's six feet tall; a person's a person no matter how small."

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yeah Horton the elephant! Learn from Dr. Seuss people, he wasn't that crazy...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

serious, non-troll question b/c I'm curious: What are your thoughts on eggs that have been fertilized as part of in-vitro/other fertilization treatments? For example, sometimes the doctor will put multiple fertilized eggs in the uterus to increase chances that an egg will actually take. However, because the surgery to get the woman's eggs is very invasive, they take a a lot and fertilize them, often resulting in "extras" that are never used and can be thrown out. Would you consider throwing these eggs out as a form of abortion? What about if multiple eggs are viable after being put into the uterus, but the woman doesn't want to be an Octomom so she asks the doctor to get rid all of them except 1/2/whatever. Again, honestly curious what your opinion is b/c I think one of the biggest questions that divide anti vs. non-anti abortion ppl is the "when is the egg/clump of cells actually considered a baby"?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

yes, i do think that throwing away the unused eggs would be abortion. technically speaking it isn't, because the definition of abortion is terminating a pregnancy, & the woman is never actually pregnant, but it still effectively kills the egg. naturally terminating some of the viable eggs is abortion. you're totally right, the definition of when the zygote/embryo/fetus/etc actually becomes a baby is the key issue. if you believe that an unborn baby at any stage of development is a human being, there is NO WAY abortion is justifiable--it's murder, plain & simple. in my opinion, it is considered a baby as soon as the egg is fertilized. that is when it becomes unique & starts developing independently.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

To me, the biggest question regarding abortion is not when is the fetus considered a human at all. I'm more concerned about what is humane than what is human. I've always thought the biggest question was: Who has the right to decide the fate of the mother and her baby, the mother herself or the government? I've always believe with great conviction that the answer is the mother and not the government because I trust women more than I trust crazy politicians who start stupid wars and get the country trillions of dollars in debt. I do believe that abortion is bad and should be reduced, but we can reduce abortions by increasing sex education, making contraceptives more available, lowering the price of childcare, and reforming the adoption system. However, I do not believe we should make abortion illegal because the decision to have a baby is one of the most important choices most people make in their lifetime and that choice should belong to the mother,

by Anonymous 13 years ago

not a committee of bureaucrats with no experience in medicine who've never even met the woman whose fate they are determining. I care about women and I care about children, even unborn children and that's why I don't want to place the lives of unborn children in the hands of radical government officials.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Let me put it this way: I fucking hate the government. like with a passion. the more i learn about it the more libertarian i become. but i think the ONLY purpose of government is to protect its citizens from outside forces & from each other. yeah, women should be allowed to do what they want, but when their actions infringe upon the rights of others is when they need to be stopped. i believe that when a baby is conceived, it becomes a human being whose rights SHOULD be protected by the law. i don't care if you don't want to have a baby; that baby exists and you can't kill it. it's murder. therefore, in my book, your logic would justify murder if it was considered for the greater good.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yes, you are correct. I also support depression and HIV, as they're also personal choices. What was that sarcasm mark again?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

People like to think that others should be responsible for their actions, but never think of what kind of life the kid will have. I'd much rather not exist at all than live a life of poverty. Even if the parents don't live in poverty, just imagine how much neglect the kid will get if the mother originally wanted an abortion. That's a pretty miserable life. inb4 flame war.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You're right, my friend's mother told her she wanted to get an abortion, and my friend was really messed up and depressed after that. My friend's mom is also a huge bitch.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Exhilirating narrative, my dear sir.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

That's strange, that's exactly what I said to my friend when she told me her parents were abusing her. Weird...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Riveting tale, comrade.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

congrats. society has brainwashed you into thinking that's what you should do. it may interest you to know that many early pro-choice activists, including margaret sanger, advocated birth control as a way to control the populations of minorities (specifically african americans) & immigrants, who at the time were of course "the poor." that may have been glossed over a bit in the spirit of political correctness, but you're still basically saying that the life of a poor person doesn't have enough quality to be worth living. when did our society get caught up in all this political rhetoric & forget about "doing the right thing"? killing a human being for any reason besides self-defense is WRONG WRONG WRONG!

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Elegant memoir, acquaintance.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

i appreciate a good troll as much as anyone (hell, i'm kind of a troll myself), but shooting down people's arguments against you with "good story" just erases your credibility completely.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Fabulous article, brother.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

successful troll is successful.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Enticing anecdote, chap.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

ok, how does this logic make any sense at all?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

What if your mother had aborted you?

by Anonymous 13 years ago