Questions regarding the legality of a possibly gay marriage keep me awake at night...

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Yes. If a person is married, and they have sexual reassignment surgery, the marriage is still valid, even after they change all their legal documents to their correct sex. It is considered a "loophole", so to speak, but an interesting one nonetheless.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

^*spoiler alert* Well it's not much of a loophole, because the people entering the marriage wouldn't be gay at the start, thus making the sex change an odd decision.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Yes and no - a transgender person is still transgender before sexual reassignment. It's a neurological condition that occurs in the womb, where a foetus with XX chromosomes is exposed to too much testosterone at 6-10 weeks gestation, caused their mind to develop as male, while the body is female. (And vice-versa for transsexual women.) So, even if their physio-biology is female, the neuro-biology is male, so it would still be gay, albeit not at a legal level until the corrective surgery.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Haha. Interesting, I guess.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I suppose since there aren't a lot of trans people (I think estimates range from 1 in 80,000 to 1 in 200,000 of the population) and even less gay trans people, it was something that no one considered when deciding upon various marriage laws and legislation.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I don't think it would even be worth the tax money to repair that "loophole."

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Isn't that just one of the many theories of how gay people become gay?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Not sure, since most medical science indicates that although transsexuals do have the neurobiology of one sex and the physiobiology of another, sexual orientation has little to do with it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T8T-5088MHS-1&_user=10&_coverDate=02/28/2011&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=40748a4c23e213f415be5bc88ed1795e&searchtype=a http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WNP-4VYP950-7&_user=10&_coverDate=07/15/2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=eb4cd28c8769acce427e7c821399c684&searchtype=a

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Oh that's interesting. I said that because I've heard other people say that is was a choice for attention or that it's a learned trait. What you said sounds much smarter to me.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

I do agree it is a difficult topic, and one that has been studied for only a short period of time (about 5 decades). And, Gender Clinics are supposed to make sure people who apply are legitimatly transsexuals - but people can get confused, such as thinking they would be happier as a "different person", or having some mental health problem, or as you said, subconcious seeking attention. And, the "learned trait" is another controversy with trans people - confusing masculinity and femininity with female and male - a woman can be masculine, act masculine, and have a male gender expression, and have no desire to be male.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

But most recent studies have dismissed "gender as a social construct" for transsexuals - it is true, but not for the majority of trans people - this isn't a science article, but it explain it pretty well - http://www.notanotheraiden.com/...cial-construct That is, you can't raise a child to be male or female - you might be able to make them masculine or feminine, but usually biology will win, and in trans people, their neurology wins. I'm a transsexual man. My parents raised me a female. I was socialised as a female. That didn't make me female. I lived on a sheep farm in New Zealand, where masculine women were role models. I live in Australia, where the culture is very masculine. That didn't make me a masculine woman. Basically, it's something that happened in the womb, and it would have occured if I'd been born in Australia, or England, or Iraq, or somewhere where women wore pants and men wore dress. But it is interesting, the relationship between social...

by Anonymous 14 years ago

<--- this guy knows his shit. also, im friends with a transgender and shes pretty awesome.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Thanks. It's sorta a "pulling out the facts" thing - like, I get people use stupid things like "Oh, if you say you're a man, then I get to wear a potato sack and say I'm a potato", and it helps to just say, no, foetus's are exposed to hormones during gestation - the womb produces both male and female hormones, and sometimes an imbalance occurs. The womb can't produce potato hormones, so GTFO Or, when people say "Men have XY chromosomes, and women have XX chromosomes! I don't care what medical sciences says, SO THERE!", point out a person can have a whole array of chromosome arrangements - XXY (Klinefelter's syndrome), XXX (Triple X syndrome), X (Turner syndrome), or XYY syndrome.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

wow...you actually cited your arguement, i've never seen anyone on anirite do that before

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Really? I've seen people do it all the time - usually with issues like religion, evolution, etc. I think it helps that I am writing an article on this for my Uni course (I'm majority in Sociology) so I did have these in my bookmarks.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Does the government recognize sex change?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

No clue. Haven't really bothered to look into it :p According to Simon they do.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Looks like it's quite the sticky situation http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/fashion/27trans.html

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Yeah, after SRS, I think you have to get a court's permission to have documentation changed, but again, varies on region.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Ugh. That's pathetic

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Depends where you live. In Australia, and most places in the US and England, if you have Sexual Reassignment Surgery (and it varies on what degree) then you're legally allowed to change your birth certificate, and then change your ID/driver's licence/etc.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

No, that's not an interesting thought

by Anonymous 14 years ago

i am proud that there really hasnt been much trolling on this post..

by Anonymous 14 years ago

you spoke to soon.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Geez I suppose I jinxed it..

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Transgenders are freaks. It's unnatural.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

HERP DERP Was waiting for this. It is an abnormal medical occurance - it's a congenial birth defect that happens in the womb, usually due to stress upon the pregnant mother (trying to find some stats, but usually there a "clumps" of transgender people who were born during a war in their country, or something).

by Anonymous 14 years ago

You can say anything is unnatural. Plastic surgery is unnatural. Some people need it though. For example, if someone were to get into a terrible car crash, plastic surgery may be their only hope to resurrect their face or some other body part. Wearing clothes is unnatural. People are born naked. About 99% of what most people do these days is unnatural in some way.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Exact. Most of what happens today is unnatural. Take, as an example, the nuclear family - mother, father, biological children. That is extremely unnatural. Most societies throughout history had some sort of kinship arrangement to prevent incest, but the idea of two humans in a monogamous relationship with only their own kin is a learned social construct. But, somehow, it became the norm.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Did you mean to reply to the post above yours?

by Anonymous 14 years ago

Trolling and having an unpopular opinion are not the same.

by Anonymous 14 years ago

True, but sometimes they overlap. Basically, if you go into a post, say something foolish, and call a group of people "freaks", then you're going to be accused of trolling.

by Anonymous 14 years ago