Exactly, personally I don't think abortion is a very good choice, it's cowardly. But I also don't have the right to tell someone how to live their life.
It's half education, as there are some grey areas (rape, high risk to mother), and also education for young people who would otherwise have unprotected sex and have an abortion. But as for the cliche abortion case of "oh shit I'm pregnant with a child i don't want, let's abort it!" the answer has nothing to do with education. The woman knew she ran the risk of getting pregnant before she got knocked up, and now society must decide weather or not the "right to privacy" is legit or just a bullshit amendment that never held any grounds in the constitution.
i clearly said that those people need to be educated because they are dumbasses. But my last sentence outlines the cliche case in which the mother was brought up in the public school system, took 10th grade health, and knew the risks but was still a dumbass.
I think abortion should be outlawed, unless the mother's life is in clear danger, but even then I'm hesitant for personal reasons, but we should be educating people about both sides.
People need to know what they're getting into before they have sex, they need to know the risks, they need to be aware how they'll have to deal with the consequences and they should know exactly what they would be doing if they got an abortion.
We can't just close our eyes, ignore the issues and hope for the best, no matter what stance you take, people have to be informed.
I think if we outlawed abortion, people would start doing "bootlegged abortions", and then you woul have to start arresting people for doing home-job abortions.
I don't see the problem with arresting people for home-job abortions. Saying we shouldn't outlaw something just because people would do it anyway isn't a valid argument. Using that logic, rape should be legal because people do it anyway.
The thing with home-abortions is that they're not safe. Someone who gets a bootlegged abortion is likely to be in bigger danger, so outlawing abortions would not really solve the problem; people would still do it, and with much worse side-effects.
It already legal, so no there wouldn't be an increase at all. And how are you gone prove that it actually was on purpose, that she actually fell down the stairs and didn't throw herself down, or someone punched her on the stomach as opposed to just falling down
My main point wasn't to discuss the "evils of abortion" and get all preachy, although I am against it. My main point is we need to educate people about abortion from both sides of the debate. Let people know what they're getting into before they have unprotected sex, let them know how to be safe, let them know exactly what they're doing when they're getting an abortion and let them know what they need to expect if they're going to be teen parents and how to deal with either of the consequences.
I'm just saying, people need to understand what they're doing when they're getting an abortion just as well as they need to understand what they're doing when they decide to become parents. They should understand both sides.
My point is people will still be arguing about it even if they're teaching it in schools. I think they should teach people what they're getting into, but you can teach it in two different ways. There's the way that makes abortions seem good and teh way that makes abortions seem bad. There will still be that ethical debate over what a human is even if people know the basics about what's going on. Even if I know that it will be hard to raise a kid, if I got pregnant it would still be a human being (please don't start an argument with me over what makes it alive, I really don't want to do that right now) so knowing what the consequences will be won't change whether it's a human or not. Or if I wanted to get an abortion but saw an ultrasound and realized how real the situation was, I'd still have to deal with whether or not it's actually a life.
Even with educating people about how to protect themselves and the consequences of both decisions, which I do believe people should know so they can be emotionally prepared for the outcomes and understand what's going on, there will still be the debate over what makes something a human and therefore whether abortion should be legal. So it does help the situation a bit, it would by no means solve the problem to just educate people. We'd first have to define what life is, and we haven't done that yet (again, please don't start a debate about that now).
You've changed your point at least twice during this debate, and I'm done with it now because you obviously don't have a firm stand-point in this argument other than "I'm against abortion". Thats just a personal choice, it doesn't give you the right to tell people what choices to make in their lives
My apologies for nto being clear in the beginning. i'm not always the best at explaining things. I'm not demanding you to change your stance and me being against abortion was never the point I was trying to make. I'm just saying, I'm for educating people about it, but that will never solve the debate. Look at you and me. We both agree people should be educated, but we're still on different stances aren't we?
You've changed your point at least twice during this debate, and I'm done with it now because you obviously don't have a firm stand-point in this argument other than "I'm against abortion". Thats just a personal choice, it doesn't give you the right to tell people what choices to make in their lives
Rape is the physical and mental assault on a fully competent, self aware human being, an embryo/zygote doesnt have that capability, which is where the "what classifies as a human being argument" comes in
But then you have to establish what a human being is, and when does a fetus become considered alive? Is it after birth, or at the moment of conception? Good luck getting everyone to agree on that
Exactly. For instance, in China (because of the one-child policy), abortion is completely legal right up to birth. So it's totally legal to "abort" (murder) a baby 8 months into the pregnancy, and some women who cannot afford the fine to pay for having a second child are actually FORCED to "abort" their baby that they are 8-and-a-half months into the pregnancy for. I do NOT approve of that, as there is no question that by that point it IS a baby. However, I am totally pro-choice for abortion in most cases, up to 3 or so months along in the pregnancy. So, in my opinion, the best thing to do would be to legalize abortion, but only up to a very short time after conception. I think more scientific research should be done in the area so that an actual scientific claim can be put forward as to at what point a fetus begins to have human-like brain activity, and make that the standardized cut-off time for legal abortions.
Exactly, personally I don't think abortion is a very good choice, it's cowardly. But I also don't have the right to tell someone how to live their life.
It's half education, as there are some grey areas (rape, high risk to mother), and also education for young people who would otherwise have unprotected sex and have an abortion. But as for the cliche abortion case of "oh shit I'm pregnant with a child i don't want, let's abort it!" the answer has nothing to do with education. The woman knew she ran the risk of getting pregnant before she got knocked up, and now society must decide weather or not the "right to privacy" is legit or just a bullshit amendment that never held any grounds in the constitution.
i clearly said that those people need to be educated because they are dumbasses. But my last sentence outlines the cliche case in which the mother was brought up in the public school system, took 10th grade health, and knew the risks but was still a dumbass.
I was actually referring to education about side affects of abortion, such as post-abortion depression and any physical risks in having an abortion.
inb4 abortion argument
I think abortion should be outlawed, unless the mother's life is in clear danger, but even then I'm hesitant for personal reasons, but we should be educating people about both sides.
People need to know what they're getting into before they have sex, they need to know the risks, they need to be aware how they'll have to deal with the consequences and they should know exactly what they would be doing if they got an abortion.
We can't just close our eyes, ignore the issues and hope for the best, no matter what stance you take, people have to be informed.
I think if we outlawed abortion, people would start doing "bootlegged abortions", and then you woul have to start arresting people for doing home-job abortions.
I don't see the problem with arresting people for home-job abortions. Saying we shouldn't outlaw something just because people would do it anyway isn't a valid argument. Using that logic, rape should be legal because people do it anyway.
The thing with home-abortions is that they're not safe. Someone who gets a bootlegged abortion is likely to be in bigger danger, so outlawing abortions would not really solve the problem; people would still do it, and with much worse side-effects.
But if it's legal, than even more innocent babies will surely die, and not because of the choices they've made themselves.
I feel like the number of aborted babies won't change as much as the number of infections/deaths of mother due to unsafe abortions.
It already legal, so no there wouldn't be an increase at all. And how are you gone prove that it actually was on purpose, that she actually fell down the stairs and didn't throw herself down, or someone punched her on the stomach as opposed to just falling down
My main point wasn't to discuss the "evils of abortion" and get all preachy, although I am against it. My main point is we need to educate people about abortion from both sides of the debate. Let people know what they're getting into before they have unprotected sex, let them know how to be safe, let them know exactly what they're doing when they're getting an abortion and let them know what they need to expect if they're going to be teen parents and how to deal with either of the consequences.
I'm just saying, people need to understand what they're doing when they're getting an abortion just as well as they need to understand what they're doing when they decide to become parents. They should understand both sides.
Way to go, you just discovered the ENTIRE point of my post, bravo!
My point is people will still be arguing about it even if they're teaching it in schools. I think they should teach people what they're getting into, but you can teach it in two different ways. There's the way that makes abortions seem good and teh way that makes abortions seem bad. There will still be that ethical debate over what a human is even if people know the basics about what's going on. Even if I know that it will be hard to raise a kid, if I got pregnant it would still be a human being (please don't start an argument with me over what makes it alive, I really don't want to do that right now) so knowing what the consequences will be won't change whether it's a human or not. Or if I wanted to get an abortion but saw an ultrasound and realized how real the situation was, I'd still have to deal with whether or not it's actually a life.
Even with educating people about how to protect themselves and the consequences of both decisions, which I do believe people should know so they can be emotionally prepared for the outcomes and understand what's going on, there will still be the debate over what makes something a human and therefore whether abortion should be legal. So it does help the situation a bit, it would by no means solve the problem to just educate people. We'd first have to define what life is, and we haven't done that yet (again, please don't start a debate about that now).
You've changed your point at least twice during this debate, and I'm done with it now because you obviously don't have a firm stand-point in this argument other than "I'm against abortion". Thats just a personal choice, it doesn't give you the right to tell people what choices to make in their lives
My apologies for nto being clear in the beginning. i'm not always the best at explaining things. I'm not demanding you to change your stance and me being against abortion was never the point I was trying to make. I'm just saying, I'm for educating people about it, but that will never solve the debate. Look at you and me. We both agree people should be educated, but we're still on different stances aren't we?
You've changed your point at least twice during this debate, and I'm done with it now because you obviously don't have a firm stand-point in this argument other than "I'm against abortion". Thats just a personal choice, it doesn't give you the right to tell people what choices to make in their lives
Rape is the physical and mental assault on a fully competent, self aware human being, an embryo/zygote doesnt have that capability, which is where the "what classifies as a human being argument" comes in
Nah, I'm pretty sure it's a good idea to out law killing a human-being.
But then you have to establish what a human being is, and when does a fetus become considered alive? Is it after birth, or at the moment of conception? Good luck getting everyone to agree on that
Exactly. For instance, in China (because of the one-child policy), abortion is completely legal right up to birth. So it's totally legal to "abort" (murder) a baby 8 months into the pregnancy, and some women who cannot afford the fine to pay for having a second child are actually FORCED to "abort" their baby that they are 8-and-a-half months into the pregnancy for. I do NOT approve of that, as there is no question that by that point it IS a baby. However, I am totally pro-choice for abortion in most cases, up to 3 or so months along in the pregnancy. So, in my opinion, the best thing to do would be to legalize abortion, but only up to a very short time after conception. I think more scientific research should be done in the area so that an actual scientific claim can be put forward as to at what point a fetus begins to have human-like brain activity, and make that the standardized cut-off time for legal abortions.
the fetus is clearly a human being, the argument is when the fetus owns its self rather than the mother.