I don't know whether to YYA or NW this. Cuz I agree that teaching people to hate is wrong, but I don't think you can say something is not true based on it's moral teachings. The deity that the religion is based on could still exist, making the religion right. Just because you don't agree with what they teach doesn't make them wrong. I worded this kinda poorly, sorry. Not sure if my point really got across.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Okay in order to answer this, we're going to have to make some assumptions. There is a God, He is perfect, and created everything. Then that He created, or divinely revealed this to people and told them how to worship Him. So the thought is, why would a perfect and holy being tell His people to hate His other creations? He wouldn't.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Well by assuming those things, the other religion is already wrong. If we know that yours is right, and there is a perfect Christian God up there, then all other religions are automatically wrong anyway. And perfect is an opinion. To you, perfect may be a loving, all accepting God. But to others, perfect may be hating the Jews, or the blacks, or anyone that worships another God. So if one of them asked the same question, assuming the same things, then God would certainly tell them to hate others. Because he is what they consider perfect, which means hating people.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No. Im saying that in the simulation, if you will, you are someone who is trying to discern which religion is correct. My post is saying asking why anyone would think that a perfect God, so one's that fair and all-knowing, would tell people to hate His other creations?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

There's a quote that I like: "You can be pretty sure that you've created God in your own image when it turns out God hates all the same people that you do". So as I said, if you hate Jews, for instance, then you would believe in the religion that says God hates the Jews and you should too.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

And wouldn't you agree that that's wrong and definitely not divinely inspired?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Not necessarily. Why couldn't God hate a certain group of people? A God that hates is just as plausible as a God who loves.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Well, another question is, why would an omnipotent, all-knowing being, which is the type of God most religions seems to believe in, create things just to hate them?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Maybe He didn't. He created regular people, and using the free will that He gave them, they changed into something He hates. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yes but He didn't hate them. God gave people free will so that they can truly love one another. Butthey can corrupt it. God still loves them. There is no sin more powerful than God's love. He can't tolerate the sin, but He still loves them.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah but didn't hate them...?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No. I know it's kind of hard to understand. If He loved them, why did He destroy their cities/them? I'm not an expert. But He did kind of have to set an example for the rest of the world. The greater good was more important, I guess. He had to protect the innocent. He still loved the people, but he had to protect the innocent from corruption, and really, terror. He could not tolerate any more of the sins. Plus a lot of the old testament is an allegory. The old testament was also trying to teach humanity, when it was young, about how to act. Times were more life and death back then, and they didn't have a strict police force or large-scale prisons. In the old testament, God seems more vengeful because He had to teach humanity how to act. Now that it is older, and times have changed somewhat, and since Jesus came, there is much more emphasis on forgiveness. Synopsis: Humanity has changed, hence the difference between the New and Old testaments. Sodom and Gomorrah: He still loved them, but their sins were hurting, and corrupting, the innocent. It was at a level that was intolerable. The whole of humanity was more important.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

He sacrificed few to save many. Okay, that makes sense.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yeah, but Christians believe that this life is fleeting and that the afterlife lasts for all of eternity. So to us, dying isn't the end of things. The afterlife is more important. I really think it was just an allegory. Oh and according to Christianity, He sacrificed His only Son for all of humanity's sins. So... Again, I'm really not an expert, and I don't have all of the answers. I just believe that religion should bring people together. It's supposed to teach people morals, and therefore should teach people to love each other.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Which in theory is wonderful, but in practice, it usually doesn't work that way.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It's how people *should* act. It's hard, but being a good person IS hard. If you're not trying to make yourself a better person, and do the right thing, what are you even doing? What's the point? In practice, love does work. It's hard to love everyone, but it's a better way to live. God can't exist in a heart filled with hate.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Wait, did I just completely misinterpret what you said?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I think you might have. I was saying that in theory, religion is supposed to bring people together in love, but the way that most people practice it doesn't do that. Like Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, and other religiously motivated conflicts.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yes but unlessthe religions teaches it, it isn't the cause. The people hating each other is the cause. People looking at differences like they're a bad thing.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Religion doesn't really teach specific things. It's the way you interpret what if says. The Bible says anything if you read it the right way. Otherwise, why would there be so many different opinions on how to practice Christianity?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Because different denominations interpret the bible differently. But each denomination has its own specific teachings.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That's what I'm saying.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Okay, I guess I don't get the point. These religions are teaching specific things in their dogma. And they each believe they are right. So...?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

So that's why religion doesn't bring people together the way it's supposed to.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Because people believe different things? I was trying to say that religion should bring people together because: it also teaches them morals, which should be to love each other.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Exactly, it should, but it doesn't. Now we're back to it works great in theory, not so great in practice.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No, because if a religion isn't doing what it should, then it's wrong.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Well again, the Bible says anything you want, depending on how you interpret it. So no one can really say what a religion should be teaching, or which religion is wrong and which is right. You think yours is right, everyone else thinks theirs is right. No one sect has any more proof or evidence than any other, it is all opinion and based on your own perception of the Bible. You can't say that a religion isn't teaching what it should.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

If it's not teaching you to be a better person, then it's wrong. And some things are pretty hard to interpret otherwise like, love your neighbor as yourself. And to each denomination, there is only one right interpretation. And it isn't my own perception if i'm following the interpretation of a specific denomination.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

My opinion and experience- If you are really studying the Bible and are truly wanting to hear God, He will speak to you through His word. He is telling you directly, you aren't just "interpreting" it.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't think I'm interpreting anything. I think that the church's interpetation comes from God. But different denominations think that others' interpretation is wrong and needs to be fixed. I personally don't think anyone can read the Bible and interpret in on his or her own. People do interpret the Bible incorrectly and for their own devices. If you aren't going by God's church you are just interpreting it on your own. The Bible is a very deep book that can have many meanings. But only one (I'm counting the literal and allegorical as one, per each denomination) is correct.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I agree I was replying to atheisticmystic when he said that the bible can be interpreted any way you want it to

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Oh, I though it said you replied to my comment. Sorry, wasn't paying enough attention.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't really care about this debate, but I just want to point out that he isn't just a "Christian God", other religions believe in the same God as well, including Jews and Islam.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

This is another one of my points. A big question of life is, "If, God is real, how do I find Him?" My point is just that, it should not be through hate.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Not really the "same" God. We all believe there's one, and He's omnipotent and omniscient and stuff, but there are few damn big differences which is why we're in separate religions.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

If there is only one God, then it is the same God. But we are in different religions because we believe that they're the religion that got it right, and was set to Earth by God. Im not saying all religions are right, I believe in one, and think that it is the correct one. We believe in God but we believe in Him differently.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Your definition of God is different from my definition of God. Our gods are different. They have some similarities, but at the end of the day they're not the same god.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

We believe different things about God, but if there is only one God, then we believe in the same one. Think of it like this: government. There are some people who don't believe in it and are anarchists (atheists). Then there are people who believe in government (theists). But they believe in different typeof government like communism or democracies, theocracies, monarchies.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

...I think we're getting our definitions of belief mixed up here. I'm talking about *what* we believe about Him, assuming He already exists. Atheists don't believe He exists.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yeah okay.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Don't stereotype an entire group of people based on a few poor examples of the given population. Christianity doesn't teach people to hate. Radical 'Christians', if you can even call them that, focus only on the commandments given by God, rather than the unwavering merciful love Jesus taught. Christians are supposed to love everyone indiscriminately, not hate others for their sins, as we're all inadequate and fall short of perfection. God doesn't hate sinners, he loves without question; that's what the whole Bible is about.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

When did the post ever mention Christianity?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No, no! I'm Catholic. I'm not stereotyping anyone. I just believe that religion should bring people together.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

All of them then? yay!

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Actually, the three main religions are particularly anti-hate. So are Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism. In fact, most religions I've ever heard of (apart from Satanism, I suppose, but then again who the hell believes in Satanism?) are more 'love thy neighbour' and 'inner peace' than hate. Annoyingly so, actually.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

And yet, somehow, they end up inspiring hatered amongst people.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Not necessarily. People inspire hatred amongst people. Religion is the excuse used, a scapegoat for the ignorant. That's like saying the law inspires crime. The law condemns crime. Religion condemns hatred.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

People, by nature, dislike that which is different. They form groups and hate other groups. We, as a apecies are already divides geography and the colour of our skin. Religions create additional groups for people to join and hate on. This is just am extension of a very fundamental problem of our very existance. It's not that religion is the cause if the hate, but it does give us humans yet another reason to spread hatered.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That's the people'd fault, bot the religion's fault, if it teaches to the contrary.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Regardless of what it teaches, religion still creates a divide.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No, people create the divide.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yes, people created the divide by creating religion. Thus, religion is a tool for hate. However, unlike things like race and geographical distance, religion is something we created to spread hate. The lack thereof would lead to one less ground for hatered. Additionally, if you closely study any religious text without picking and choosing what you want to believe in, you will find the hints of hatred towards other groups.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

So should we get ride of races, and countries, and genders too? Because they can spread hate. But religion wasn't created to spread hate, it was creted to worship a higher power and spread moral teachings. And I don't pick in choose what I believe, yet I love everyone as best as I can. When people use religion as a tool for hate, if the religion does no teach hatered, it is the person's fault, not the religion's. And many people who believe in the institution of religion believe that it was divinely inspired.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't think you understand. We cannot rid ourselves of races and gender, however, we can rid ourselves of religion. This is because religion is not something permanent or something we have not had a choice about. We created religion. It was constructed for specific purposes, not divinely inspired as you claim it to be. Now, I don't know how in touch you are with the histories of the establishment of any major religion. However, if you examine the roots of all religions closely, you will realize that it has been created to inspire a group of people to collectively suppress another group of people and gain power over them. Religion, unlike gender and race, has been created as a tool that spreads hatred to obtain power.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No, it hasn't. It was created to explain how things were created, answer the big questions. And we can't rid ourselves of religion, because people like me will never stop believing in something bigger. it wasn't created as a tool for hatred. When people use it as that tool, it is because they are manipulating it. But any religion that teaches hatred, is wrong. But not all religions teach that. Blaming the religion is just an excuse.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

To explain how things were created is a question of philosophy. All that is required is philosophy, not religion, to ponder upon the origins of the universe. What is truly needed to explain things is science. Additionally, being a good person does not have much to do with religion. The ratio of what one may define as good and bad people is pretty much equal, if not higher, amongst atheists when compared to religious people. And might I add that absolutely all terror groups existing on earth today are based on religion, draws their principles from religious texts, and are very ( and by very I mean at an uncomfortable level) devoted to their religion. Religion inspires hatred towards those of other religions or a lack there of. That would be very clear to you if you looked at the current, and might I add, a very sorry state of the world. Now, when you say that I am blaming religion, you are incorrect in that assumption. I do not in fact blame any religion for the hatred amongst people for it is our nature to hate that which is different. However, by having different religions we have inadvertently created even more hatred.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That's because of people. Not religions. And religion is tantamount synonymous with religion. You are blaming religions. ("Religion inspires hatred towards those of other religions or a lack there of.") You are saying that it is the fault of religion, and not people or even certain religions.The point of my post is to say that any religion that teaches hatred, is wrong, because religions are used to teach morals. Therefore religions should teach love, because they teach morals. Now, I was NOT saying that atheists don't have morals (in fact, I've almost always said otherwise, especially on this site) but a primary function of religion is to teach people right from wrong. So if it isn't teaching people that hatred is wrong, the religion itself is wrong. Any organization can create hatred if it is abused and corrupted. Science also doesn't always answer all of the questions. It doesn't tell us why animals are able to kill each other, but we humans, know that it is wrong to kill each other. Science cannot answer everything. Also if there equal amounts of moral people, religious or otherwise, then there is an equal amount of hateful atheists. They most likely, are equal.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Once again, since people created religion, anything that takes place as a consequence is obviously our own fault. And even if religion didnt explicitly teach hatred, which is most definitely not the case, it inadvertently does so.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No it doesn't. You're saying because religion splits us up, it creates hatred, and should be abolished? So, we should get rid of everything that makes us different instead of learning to coexist? To reject hatred, and embrace love, we have to all become the same? And again, the people who believe in religion, do not believe that it was merely created by humans.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

If I may say this, religion was, in fact, created by people. Now, one may believe that the people who created the religion were holy (the prophets, etc.), to any atheist or a person of a different faith, that is just crazy and delusional. And yes, things that split us up gives rise to hatred. This is not even a uniquely human phenomenon. There are signs of racism in even monkeys based solely on the colour of their fur. However, this kind of biological and geographical rift can not be eradicated by us for such a task is impossible for at least a few million years when everyone will become beige and the continents might shift such that they all come together and one huge continent. However, religion is something we actively created, voluntarily follow, and easily eradicated by using some common sense. As far as co-existence goes, I don't care about what other people think as long as they leave me alone and don't try to "pray for me" after stopping me at a bus stop and asking me if I believe in God, however, due to the presence of religion, that is not possible.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Religion will never be eradicated. And to blame religion for people being biased is stupid. The reasons people hate other people are just excuses: skin, gender, religion. The real reasons are: insecurity, envy, jealousy. Also, belief in a higher power and religion is not going to be knocked out by common sense, because a lot of common sense leads people to believe in them. It did for me. It is extremely rude of you to assume that people who believe in religion are unenlightened or stupid. Many intelligent people believe in it. You're coming off as a bigot, and perhaps hypocritical.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Well, maybe I am. But if you actually read my comment rather than busying yourself getting offended, you will see that I have mentioned things about people picking and choosing the good things in Scripture. While it is true that scripture tell us to love, it also tells us about people being stoned, raped and burning for eternity. I could go about quoting the bible and the qoran but that would be a bit silly. As far as my claims to the origins of religion are concerned, its not my belief but history. And people aren't stupid to hate, it is our nature. There is so much good research that shows that pretty much all primates dislike things that are different. Additionally, this is a website for sharing opinions and by calljned me bigoted, you are just proving the point that I just made.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Youre saying religion should be abolished. That's kind of bigoted. I don't know what to tell you. I just wanted you to know that not all religion teaches hate and if it does, its wrong. But that people have the right to believe in whatever they want. Even things that are hateful, but its wrong and counterproductive for peacefu coexistance. You can't get rid of religion anymore than you can get rid of the lack of one because its beliefs.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It will happen in a few more centuries though. It has already started as seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism . The numbers are only increasing. Have a good day.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yes, there is more acceptance for people who do not believe in religion, so more are free to admit so, but everyone is different, and everyone will believe different things, so most religions, the major ones, will likely continue to exist indefinitely.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yet, alas, it is these major religions that are the root of most of the terrorism problems. Is it really so difficult to just believe in God or a higher power without offering oneself to these organized, power-mongering, political monsters that we call religion. If so, I almost feel ashamed to be a human, the so called perfect being in the eyes of the believers.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Terrorism uses religion as an excuse, most of the time. Not all religions teach hate. Therefore not all religions cause hate. And humans are not perfect in the teachings of any religion I know about. Religion is the excuse, not the cause. Difference is not the cause either. So you cannot put the blame on those things. It's not the fault of different races and ethnicities, so why would it be the fault of religion either?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Except racism is the fault of race. Had races not existed, there would be no racism. Additionally, a few thousand years form now, if humanities still persists by then, everyone will become a hybrid beige and there will be no more racism. As I already said, racism even exists amongst other primates based primarily of differences in fur coat colour. To dislike that which is different and to see it as a threat is hardwired into the human brain. I say that because there are actual peer-reviewed articles about this in reputed journals. Religion does the same thing. You obviously have different ideas about this but it doesn't change the cold, hard, scientific fact. But then again, you maybe also not think that evolution is incorrect regardless of the truth that it is a scientific fact, just the the theory of gravity. Have a good day.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I believe in evolution, actually. Racism is NOT the fault of race. HAte is not rational. It's because of people who are insecure, jealous, greedy, cruel. Even if all the races blend together, there will still be things that people use as excuses for hate. Because that's what they are: excuses.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It appears to me that humans are capable to freeing themselves from their biology. However, unfortunately, we as a race are not capable of transcending anything our brains are programmed to think and feel. Just study evolutionary psychology seriously and we may end up seeing eye to eye. Emotions, however crude and irrational, are defense mechanisms hardwired into us. They are not at all unique to our species at all. We just have the ability to vocalize them. Regardless of what you might believe, emotions and feeling including insecurity, jealousy, greed, cruelty, hatred, and yes, even altruism have true evolutionary survival value and are a genetically programmed into every human being and many other species. If you claim these things are all excuses, then you by default claim that our biology is just an excuse and that we are capable of overcoming it, which is simply not true (pardon the run-on sentence). Have a good day and hope you are enjoying this discussion as much as I am, or so I assume since you are no longer calling me a bigot.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I think it is an excuse to blame your limitations on anything. As humans, we have the power to push ourselves to be better.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Ahh, of course! Mind over matter. But what of the matter of the mind? Anyways, you clearly see humans as special beings who can exceed all limitations. Whereas, I think that there are limitations that most of us are not even aware of yet and thus cannot exceed them. For me, as a molecular biologist, those limitations are the ones imposed upon us by our genes, most of which we are clueless about.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

You're a molecular biologist? That's pretty cool. Our genes may be somewhat influential, but there really is something that sets us apart from animals. We know that it is wrong to hurt and kill each other. Animals will kill each other over territory. People are able to overcome things. We are capable of extraordinary things. It's just an excuse, if you know better.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

We kill each other over territory too. We just make it look more sophisticated. Did you forget about the whole European imperialism thing or Japanese invasions of China, or lasting until less than a century ago. Oh, and how can we forget about the formation of the newest country, South Sudan. And of course there will never be an end to the nature vs. nurture debate. Neither will there ever be answers to what makes seemingly so very different. However, people like me believe in the miracles of the DNA while people like you, I presume, believe in the miracles of the human soul. I suppose your's is a more optimistic approach to explaining our success as a species.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No, I meant we know that it's wrong to kill each other and we condemn it (though people have taken over territory too; but most countries no longer do it), when animals do it daily. I haven't forgotten about imperialism, but my point could've been clearer. I think that DNA is miraculous, but I don't think it explains everything. Plus, we do have learned abilities and personality traits. I just think that humans are meant to be so much more.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It probably doesn't explain everything now because we don't even know what most of our DNA does. We have no clue as to what it codes for and why is it there. But eventually, we will figure it all out. Or so I like to think so that I can continue to do seemingly menial tasks under my professor. The view that humans are meant for so much more, to me, is not really relevant because I see our species as just one of the many that inhabit a piece of rock in a space filled with so many more. One day, humanity will become extinct, the earth will be scorched to death, the sun will blast into a supernova and that will be it. We won't be able to escape it because pretty much everyone will die en-route to another inhabitable planet as recent research shows that it is, indeed, impossible surpass the light of speed. And even if that is not the case and we do manage to avoid our impending doom and the removal of all evidence that we were ever here, by that time, we will no longer be us. We will have evolved to something that is no longer a homo sapien. We have digressed too far from our initial discussion into things irrelevant to the post. lol.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I know, but oh well. I doubt that we will be able to answer all the questions through science. One reason is that some people do not accept science if they feel that it goes against what they believe. Another is that there are an infinite amount of questions. Not all of them have a definite answer. I think it's fairly obvious by now that I believe in God. It makes sense to me. It's something I think about a lot. I've come to that conclusion. (I don't *expect* you to, or demand that you do) I also cannot accept that this was all for naught. That our love, art, beauty, triumphs, will have meant nothing in 3 billion years or whatever the number may be. I look at human beings and see something so beautiful and filled with so much potential. I just can't see us as just another species. I just feel that there has to be some deeper meaning.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Satanism :o

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Satanism actually accepts everyone. It doesn't teach hate...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

love the sinner, hate the sin :)

by Anonymous 12 years ago