Wasn't that done like ages ago though, when it was assumed that everyone was religious. I agree with you in terms of modern day society though.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

This. I don't care if they're already there, a Bible quote or whatever doesn't really effect me, but I agree that it shouldn't be put up using public money.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

affect*

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I think it would depend upon what the religious saying is. If it directly relates to God, or the specific theology, I would agree. But what if it's something like someone putting, “And you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free," on the side of a library? That would be pretty relevant.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well yeah, that's fine. I just mean putting something like "Through God, all things are possible" on a public school. Nothing endorsing a certain religion.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

That's true. If it's a public building, funded by public money, it should not endorse or discourage any religion or lack thereof.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm glad we agree on something :) we have argued quite a bit on here.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yeah, but I generally respect your opinion so I never get upset about it. I feel that you disagree with my religion without being rude or disrespectful about it, and I can admire that, especially in a young adult. Back to this, I just don't want the government getting involved in religion, because someone is going to end up being persecuted. A secular government is very important for religious freedom. But a secular government is not one that abolishes all religions, which is what France seems to try to do sometimes.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Im not familiar with French politics regarding religion. What do they do?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

http://www.caaglop.com/robbenisland-blog/uncategorized/of-scarves-and-secularism/ That pretty much explains it. They outlawed to use of head scarves and burkhas for girls, and "conspicuous religious symbols".

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Wow...how does that stand? They shouldn't be allowed to oppress Muslims like that.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

They're doing it to everyone. It seems to me that their extremist secularism is part of the result of kicking out the monarchy and the Catholic church. That this is the way they've retaliated, by going to another extreme.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

it's not just Muslims, I've heard that crosses and kippahs aren't allowed either (correct me if I'm wrong).

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I really don't know, I'm not French, you see.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

sorry, I meant that last bit as a general statement if anyone else read the comment who knew.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

that's why a lot of people think "in god we trust" written on all our money is unconstitutional, and i agree. buuuut that was added wayy back in the mccarthy era when they felt the need to separate us from the "antichrist godless communists" and now i feel like it would be a HUGE political brouhaha to take it off.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Exactly. I was at a college graduation, and the speaker left "under God" out of the pledge of allegiance. There was an uproar in the auditorium.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

YYA, but I've never really seen this anywhere.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

ex: every court room I've been in has had "In God We Trust" branded above where the judge sits.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Fair enough. That's not enough to complain about, though. It's whatever.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Perp!

by Anonymous 13 years ago

...I'm not so sure about unconstitutional. I mean, if we let people get their panties in a bunch about every little thing we write on walls, then we won't be able to write anything because it will offend someone, somewhere, and they'll bitch about having to put money forth to do it. The whole tax money thing is an issue though, and if you are truly offended by it I see where it could be a problem. But it is public money for a reason. Maybe it would be more just if there was a vote on it, and they alerted everyone before hand. I feel like I'm rambling.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

The OP is referring to the Establishment Clause when he says that it is unconstitutional, he's not complaining just to complain.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

This reminds me of how, on Ground Zero, they have a large cross for the religion of Christianity yet refused to have a mosque for Muslims built near the area. How much more ridiculous can people be.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Exactly. My atheist group filed a suit against that cross.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

(AtheisticMystic):Seriously? Wow...that's lame. Why don't u guys just let sleeping dogs lie? Its not harming you, is it? I dunno, I find that unnecessary.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Why should Christians get special recognition? Atheists, Jews, Muslims, agnostics, and more also died on 9-11.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I realise that, and there's nothing stopping people of other religions from putting up symbols of faith, except for the whole "Mosque on Ground Zero" thing. Next thing you're gonna say people can't put flowers out for loved ones because other peoples' loved ones died too and the former doesn't deserve all the recognition. I'm sorry but I find the fact that your group would file a law suit quite pathetic actually. There must be something better to do with your time...surely?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

yes because making sure every person gets equal rights, and making sure people don't get special treatment from the government just because of what they beleive in is such a time waster. Martin Luther King and all the people involved in the feminist movement might as well have been sitting on their couch and watching tv.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

What does the government have to do with anything? I thought the cross was put up by random people on public property...as any Jew, Muslim, Atheist, Buddhist or what ever could put up the same kind of "symbol of faith" as it were in the same venue? I agree that nobody should get preferential treatment based on their beliefs; that's very unfair. What I was saying is that whats wrong with a Christian cross being there, cant anybody (Atheist, Jew, Muslim etc) put their symbol of faith there? If that cross can help one person get through a rough day of missing loved ones then is it really that bad a thing? I just don't see how a group can attempt to remove something that in no way affects them but might affect somebody else very deeply and positively and help them. Wouldn't helping your fellow countrymen be the more immediate goal?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Ok there are several things I would like to say. First. Where in the constitution does it say that you can't put a religious reference ina public building. Second, separation of church and state was so that they wouldn't take Christianity out of the schools. Not so that Christianity would be banned from public places.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Wait, so that they wouldn't take Christianity out of schools? Separation of church and state is so that they wouldn't have Christianity (or any religion) IN schools! And the Establishment Clause states that the government shall make no law respecting a certain religious establishment. And I'm aware that putting a cross or something on a government building isn't a law, but it's still the government endorsing/favoring Christianity. If they put a symbol up for every religion in the world (and atheism) that would be fine. But they shouldn't favor one religion.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

wow way to force your religious views down peoples throats. lemme ask you something, do I make my username "imchristian<33jesuss72"? no I don't. do I make posts about how much i love jesus and how much people should go to church? no I dont. so shut up.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

My username is atheisticmystic because when I'm debating on here or contributing to a religious conversation, I like people to know what my views are. The only thing I'm forcing down your throat is secularism, which was one of the founding fathers' chief principles and remains one of our chief principles today. Whenever it is challenged, I stand up for it (in what little ways I can).

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Actually the founding fathers were Christians. Most of them were actually preachers. And they actually recommended a Bible for schools to use.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

They were deists.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

They were Christian firsts. And that's only a couple. Most were angelican I believe.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

whoa man. wow sorry I posted that comment when I was almost passed out tired and I wasn't thinking straight. also I think I was mad for some reason, but not at you. i still...mostly... agree with what I said but I'm apologizing for being rude.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Oh haha it's cool

by Anonymous 13 years ago

he wasn't at all forcing his beliefs down your throat at all. He was simply saying that putting religious sayings on public buildings is unconstitutional, which it is according to the constitution, just like it would be unconstitutional to put atheist sayings on public buildings.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Deists my phone auto corrected to firsts.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

"The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy" -George Washington. "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man...perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind...a mere contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves" -Thomas Jefferson. "State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Erecting the wall of separation between church and state, therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society" -Thomas Jefferson. "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason" -Benjamin Franklin. "As to Jesus of Nazareth...I have some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I think it needless to busy myself with now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble." -Benjamin Franklin. There are more quotes like that, but I don't want type them all up. The point is, the founding fathers were deists and rejected organized religion and the divinity of Christ. They believed in God, but were certainly not Christians. They may have publicly acted like it so as not to upset their supporters, b...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

But in private, they were not Christians. George Washington attended church, but refused communion all his life. He also said no prayer on his deathbed and requested no ritual and he had a Freemason funeral service.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Now I could be wrong but I believe that their main problem was wig the Catholic church that had somewhat tarnished what it actually meant to be a Christian. They did not I believe have a problem with churches in general.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Say what you want, but bottom line, they were not Christians.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Most of then believed in the Bible and followed Jesus. That makes them Christian. The fact that they recommended a specific Bible for schools tells me that they were Christian.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Did you miss where Thomas Jefferson called Christianity the "most perverted system"? He hated Christianity.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

He hated the system. Honestly I do too. Christians don't act like we should. I'm not by any means saying I'm perfect. I'm far from it. But I try. And I think that in the united states especially in the Bible belt where I live it is almost like a status symbol to be a Christian. My girlfriend actually had two male Christians (they claimed to be Christians) tell her that not only does God not expect us to wait for marriage to have sex but he doesn't care if we do or not. That is just wrong... so yez christianity is a perverse system.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Or rather humans have perverted what it means to be a christian.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well as I always say, the bible says anything If you read it the right way. The way those two guys interpreted it, God doesn't care about their sex lives. The way you interpret it, He does.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Now I could be wrong but I believe that their main problem was wig the Catholic church that had somewhat tarnished what it actually meant to be a Christian. They did not I believe have a problem with churches in general.

by Anonymous 13 years ago