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By giving us the tool to deny Him (critical thinking) and neglecting to give us the key to accept Him (strong evidence), God forces us to rely on faith rather than the natural tendencies He gave us. Why make salvation more difficult for your creation, amirite?

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Not exactly. If God was just plainly, physically in front of us, having a normal conversation with us-why would we need faith? We wouldn't. And faith is the basis for commitment. If we were to ask God physically, in person for something, and He said "Okay here," that would not build our trust and love for Him as much as praying for something and patiently waiting to receive the answer. When that answer comes, it is a much more momentous occasion than the scenario above. Though personally, I believe the evidence for God's existence as well as the legitmacy of the Bible is there, some people just refuse to take a closer look.

@gingerpeach2012 Not exactly. If God was just plainly, physically in front of us, having a normal conversation with us-why would we...

If God was as tangible and concrete as you just described, we could be just as committed to spreading and upholding the Word of God and being as good as a Christian as you can possibly be. You do not need faith in His existence to have in faith in His goodness.

DanielJamess avatar DanielJames Yeah You Are +3Reply
@DanielJames If God was as tangible and concrete as you just described, we could be just as committed to spreading and upholding...

You make a good point, but i don't think you know the definition of faith well enough. Because if i knew anything was absolute truth, then i would have no faith in it. If God was my grandpa for example, i would have no need for faith in his existence because he is right there and i would know that he was good because he is my awesome grandpa. therefore, i have no faith that he exists and i have no faith that he is good, because i know for a fact that he exists and that he is good.

So if God directly revealed himself, there is no faith. Salvation yes, because it would be brutally obvious and you would have to be retarded not to believe in God if he directly revealed himself. But NO faith is involved...

so in summary, faith does not equal salvation.

@gingerpeach2012 Not exactly. If God was just plainly, physically in front of us, having a normal conversation with us-why would we...

The problem is that the bible and most other holy books are filled with contradictions, so how is someone supposed to believe the in something when the only evidence is filled with holes?

skye531s avatar skye531 Yeah You Are +1Reply

Why bother making a faith-based test for salvation, or any test, when He already knows who will be joining him in heaven anyways?

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Simons avatar Simon Yeah You Are +1Reply

It doesn't make salvation more difficult, those reasons just means we have to be absolutely committed-God's way of revealing who truly loves him. And why shouldn't we be so unwaveringly committed after the incredible sacrifice that Jesus made for us?

@gingerpeach2012 It doesn't make salvation more difficult, those reasons just means we have to be absolutely committed-God's way of...

Are you saying that if God provided us with stronger evidence then we would not be able to reach the same level of commitment?

DanielJamess avatar DanielJames Yeah You Are +8Reply
@gingerpeach2012 It doesn't make salvation more difficult, those reasons just means we have to be absolutely committed-God's way of...

Don't you think it's kind of fucked up that we are born indebted to someone we've never met, for something we never asked for? The people I know who do things like that, I call manipulative.

Suzywaos avatar Suzywao Yeah You Are +4Reply
@Suzywao Don't you think it's kind of fucked up that we are born indebted to someone we've never met, for something we never...

So if someone pushed your pregnant mother out of the way of a speeding car, saving not only her life, but yours as well, you wouldnt be thankful, greatful, or forever in their debt? I know this isn't a perfect example, but I believe it gets my point across.

Starkiller731s avatar Starkiller731 Yeah You Are -5Reply
@Starkiller731 So if someone pushed your pregnant mother out of the way of a speeding car, saving not only her life, but yours as...

I would be, but I, know that the person saved my mother, and I'd be grateful of my own accord. Now imagine that same person claims to have done the same thing for a far off ancestor, and tells me if I refuse to worship them for their sacrifice, they will torture me for eternity.

Suzywaos avatar Suzywao Yeah You Are +11Reply

What's the point of life then? How would God know who deserves salvation? Faith tests who will love God unconditionally and throughout all things good or bad. If we all knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that God existed life would just be a test of who fears him the most. That's not christian.

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@1724130

Well not in a competitive way but essentially yes. God's two great commandments are 1) Love me, and 2) Love your neighbors

Why debate? Why can't we just live together not caring about what other people believe in? Why not just respect other people for their beliefs? Faith is difficult and its admirable to pull it off. The absence of faith is just as admirable because you're using what you know to prove or disprove something. So if somebody believes something different than you, just respect it and move on.

You do have to believe He exists to believe in His love and goodness towards us. But it sounds like we're both Christians (you were saying "we") so why waste our time on this earth arguing about this? (:

@gingerpeach2012 You do have to believe He exists to believe in His love and goodness towards us. But it sounds like we're both...

You misunderstood me. By "you do not need faith in His existence," I was referring to the hypothetical situation in which God was tangible and concrete, thus rendering faith in His existence unnecessary.

And I'm atheist. I use "we" because I'm speaking generally, not solely to you, and using "you" sounds somewhat aggressive. But, yes, our debate shall stop here, because it is now irrelevant to the post.

DanielJamess avatar DanielJames Yeah You Are +6Reply

Reminds of this:
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Cpt_McMuffins avatar Cpt_McMuffin Yeah You Are -2Reply

Suppose God is temporally eternal, and the future does not yet exist. What if God has faith in His creation as we are expected to have faith in Him? (Granted, we can fail God, but He will never fail us.) What if faith is a part of God's very nature?

Because he's god you idiot

Ah okay I see your point now, I did misunderstand that phrase. And oh. Well in that case I genuinely pray that you might see God and His amazing love for you and accept His gift of salvation while you still have time.

To see who actually deserves salvation, probably.

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@1723938

No one's forcing you to word it like that, you're the one trying to make religion sound awful.

@boxtop No one's forcing you to word it like that, you're the one trying to make religion sound awful.

With all the wars and atrocities it has caused, it isn't the best. Yes there are good sides, but you must think of the bad as well.

skye531s avatar skye531 Yeah You Are +3Reply
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@1723971

I don't ignore the negatives, I'm fully aware of them. I can't speak for every religious person. But if you understand the positives, you believe there is a reason for the negatives. Like I said, it depends on your thought process, and not everybody is going to think the same.

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@1723967

There's a differenced between sugar-coating something and including the positive aspects of it. A person can make religion sound good without sugar-coating anything. It depends on your thought process.

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