I'm not vegan or vegetarian. But usually the animals are abused.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

...I work for my uncle, who is a butcher in a small town. Owns the business. Very small business. There are six employees. These cows lived happily in their farmer's big green pasture before walking into the lockers. They get shot twice between the eyes. They are in no way hurt or abused. Unless you buy your mea from some big processing company who doesn't give a sh!t about their customers or products, you're most likely not buying animal that's been abused.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Most people buy from big buisesses, that's why they're big, so no, you most likey are buying an animal that was abused.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'M not buying an animal that was abused. You are the one who decides where to get your meat. I work at the lockers in a small town of 1700 people in Nebraska. So yeah, getting your meat from a WalMart is just kinda unheard of...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

If only everyone lived in a small town.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Not a small town. Just somewhere that naturally raises the meat somewhat nearby. We get cows from an hour and a half drive away sometimes. There are probably ten or fifteen small meat lockers within a sixty mile radius of our town.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

"YOU'RE most likely not buying animal that's been abused."

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Why are they shot twice? If the first shot didn't kill them, wouldn't that mean they're hurt?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

They're probably shot twice in quick succession to ensure they die. This would minimize any suffering.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yeah, they're shot with a rifle, two shots within about ten or fifteen seconds. It's really fast, and they're already dead after the first shot. The second is just to make sure. Because we don't torture our cows. We don't slit their throats while they're alive.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I still fail to see your point, I wouldnt really appreciate being shot twice between the eyes,I'd prefer living. I am a vegetarian and i understand that at least they lived a nice life and didnt suffer as much as they could have, but still seems a bit murderous to me

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You wouldn't appreciate it? No. You wouldn't give a feck; you'd be dead in an instant. Of course it's murderous. That's what killing is. But it's food. And nonvegetarians and nonvegans don't care. We see it as food. So we're gonna eat it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It would actually take a second to die, and you'd feel it.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

...Did you know that an instant and a second are the same thing? And if killing them in an instant isn't good enough for you, what do you recommend??

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm a vegetarian but I think going vegan would be too much for me. But, like the comment above, they often do abuse animals to get things like eggs and milk. I can't find the link right now, but I remember reading somewhere that most egg farmers give the hen's only enough room in their cage for about 3/4 of them to fit. The rest of their body is squeezed inside. It's really sad.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

They also feed them hormones to make them bigger and their legs won't support them because of all the weight so they snap.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Well the EU has banned battery cages for hens so incidences where that's happening are decreasing.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

http://hiddenfaceoffood.com/ Really?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Okay maybe I should have phrased it better, animals don't have to be harmed. At home we buy only free range and organic products, I think more people should do that too. Also thanks for the link, even though I couldn't finish watching.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

True, animals don't have to be harmed. Chipotle, for instance, uses free range animals. I agree, more people should do that. And that video really is hard to watch...

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You realize that those were very isolated incidents, right? Most of the industry does not do that.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

They may not deliberately torture the animals, but they don't usually have pleasant conditions.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Not everyone can afford to keep their livestock in a spa.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yes, let's take pity on the poor slaughterhouse owners that can't afford to keep their animals healthy and in a humane environment. That is a horrible argument. If you can't afford to run a humane slaughterhouse then you shouldn't run one at all.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

"Humane" and "pleasant conditions" are two different things. USDA Choice is "humane"; Kobe beef is "pleasant conditions."

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I actually have to agree. The USA isn't even set on health. If it's really that unhealthy, the FDA's on it, so you don't even have to worry. We just like tasty foods. Nobody cares about the conditions of the animals because a lot of them die for food anyways. Plus, they're animals. It's either the slaughterhouse or be slaughtered by other animals. It's just that one is manmade, though, so that might be the problem. Even though they're bred for human purposes. Those that produce eggs and such, however, can't say much for them. It must ridiculously expensive to have all that land and tons and tons of chickens or cows or something that all must be fed properly with the right food and not given any chemicals, which in turn would increase the price of their product. Not everyone can afford that product. It's not even worth it most of the time. I wouldn't pay an extra 2 bucks for a carton of milk just because it was "made organically" which I've witnessed before in stores. We're in a recession, we need to watch our money. Even out of a recession, we need to watch our money. And the organically processed foods won't be making much if they can't even meet their cash quota. We're cheap.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Sure you don't hurt them but a lot of energy is lost through life processes that you lose energy. Thus, you are not helping the animals, but instead assisting the environment.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Um...what?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You must feed the animals to keep them alive, yes? You are feeding them, but they use up energy by life processes, just like we do through eating, we use the energy we gain from eating to follow through with life processes. It is estimated that 90% of energy in the food chain between a predator/prey is lost due to life processes. By eating vegetables, you are going straight from the source so much less energy is lost, instead of having to keep alive a creature that uses much more energy than a plant and most likely less efficient. Since there is less energy being lost through their life, there is more for other purposes. However, I did watch a video on how one farm recycled cow manure by using the methane gas they produced in order to power the farm. While that is efficient, the cows are creating a lot of methane gas, which means that they are "hurting the environment" as they are greenhouse gasses (or as environmentalists have been trying to convince everyone else). While having dairy products requires that you keep a cow alive, plants do not produce as much dangerous substances for their environment, in fact, they help keep us alive.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

True, but I only gave dairy and eggs as one example. True vegans wouldn't eat things like honey either as that is a product of animals, and you don't need much to keep bees alive.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Someone tried to use this argumemt against me in a debate tournament. I flat-out told him I didn't understand it. I won the round.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

It's rather simple science, what isn't to understand about it?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Not all vegans are doing it just because they're animal activists, some of them are might be doing for the health benefits

by Anonymous 13 years ago

But both eggs and dairy products are deemed super foods because how incredibly healthy they are in general?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Veganism is a very unhealthy lifestyle. Vegans have to take many supplements to make up the nutrients they miss out on because they don't eat animal products. It's also a very expensive lifestyle because non-dairy alternatives to milk are much more expensive, and because when they choose to become vegan they have to replace everything they own that came from an animal. (leather shoes, belts, furniture, etc...)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

That's not trueat all. Not all vegans have to take a shitload of supplements. Even without animals or animal byproducts in your diet, you can find the same vitamins/nutrients from other places. B-12, calcium, iron, vitamin D, are all found in other easily attainable foods. (Breakfast cereals for instance.) I'm a vegan and I'm broke as fuck, the amount that I spend on groceries hasn't increased. The almond and rice milk I buy are NOT more expensive than regular milk. I really don't understand why you made half the claims you did.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Also, becoming a vegan for the health benefits doesn't mean that you have to replace furniture.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Strict vegans do not own products made from animals. This includes furniture. There are no health benefits to being a vegan.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Yes, that's STRICT vegans. If you change your diet to a vegan one solely for the health benefits, then replacing your furniture is not necessary.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

If you're not a strict vegan then you're just a vegetarian who wants to seem cool. And there are no health benefits to being a vegan.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Sorry but I thought going on a vegan diet meant not eating any animal biproducts and a vegetarian is someone who eats all animal biproducts except for meat?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

nope you're wrong veg·e·tar·i·an/ˌvejiˈte(ə)rēən/ Noun: A person who does not eat meat, and sometimes other animal products, esp. for moral, religious, or health reasons. (https://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&tok=NrdNiPq8y8yNVOLLgQgReg&cp=12&gs_id=9k&xhr=t&q=define+vegetarian&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=define:+vege&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=658b538c23bb4e18) veg·an/ˈvēgən/ Noun: A person who does not eat or use animal products. (https://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=define+vegan&oq=define:+ve&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_nf=1&gs_l=hp.3.0.0l4.1744120.1747414.0.1749073.10.10.0.0.0.3.555.1724.7j3-1j1j1.10.0.mfq746fF8GY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=658b538c23bb4e18)

by Anonymous 13 years ago

1. Under the definition of vegetarian, it says SOMETIMES does not eat other animal products. This means that one can exclude only meats from tgeir diet, and be considered a vegetarian. 2. Your source is google. This is not a quality source.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

!. I never stated otherwise. 2. Google pulls from many different sources and is very reliable. However, because you are convinced otherwise, here it is from 2 very respected sources. Definition of VEGAN : a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy products; also : one who abstains from using animal products (as leather) (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegan) veg·e·tar·i·an    [vej-i-tair-ee-uhn] Show IPA noun 1. a person who does not eat or does not believe in eating meat, fish, fowl, or, in some cases, any food derived from animals, as eggs or cheese, but subsists on vegetables, fruits, nuts, grain, etc. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vegetarian) This means that vegans don't use animal products at all, while vegetarians may choose to only omit meat or to omit dairy products as well.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I'm a vegetarian, but I don't buy any leather products and try not to buy products tested on animals and don't eat anything made with gelatin. I eat eggs and milk but only buy them from free range sources. Someone who is vegan may only be doing it for dietary reasons, and while they are often called "strict vegetarians" vegan can still be used to refer to them if they don't eat any animal products.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

"Someone who is vegan may only be doing it for dietary reasons, and while they are often called "strict vegetarians" vegan can still be used to refer to them if they don't eat any animal products." No it can not. Or at least, it cant be done correctly. There are vegans and there are vegetarians. Two separate lifestyles.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Thank you for clearing that up.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I think cutting back on fat is considered a health benefit.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You can cut back on fat without cutting out meat and dairy products. When one does cut out meat and dairy products, it becomes harder to attain necessary nutrients, such as B12, Omega 3, Iron, Zinc, and Calcium. Cut B12 out of your diet for a while, and then talk to me about health benefits.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

You don't need to, but it's a good way to. It's not hard to find the nutrients when a lot of meat and dairy replacement products contain them. Veganism can also benefit your health by cutting off cholesteral. I think veganism can be benefical to your health if you do it right.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Not only are the hens in big egg-producing industries abused, male chicks are killed because they can't produce eggs. I'm not a vegan, but I can definitely understand why veganism would be important for animal activists.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

[citation needed]

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Maybe they do it because they don't like the taste. I don't like most dairy products, so I get soy products everywhere I go. If I didn't eat meat, I'd be considered a vegan.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

own anything made of leather? If so then you would not be considered a vegan.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I only own faux leather and faux fur things.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

well then congratulations on your ability to be vegan?

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I never said I was a vegan.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I never said you were a vegan.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Unfortunately, yes, the animals are viciously and inhumanely abused even through dairy and egg products. I won't give you the super detailed story, but basically this: Cows are milked by metal claws up to the point where the poor animal is literally crawling because it's breasts are so sore. They are also injected with abnormal medications which make the breasts unnaturally and uncomfortably bigger. They have a risk of infection, and it's extremely painful. You know the feeling, as a human female, when your breasts are growing and they hurt a bit? Picture that times 20, and then picture them getting squeezed tightly by metal. Ouch! As for the eggs, chickens are also abused by being forced to lay more eggs than is natural. The eggs that contain males are literally thrown away, left to die. And not to mention, these animals are beaten, whipped, burned, seared, and undernourished every day. That's reality for ya.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

[citation needed]

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Go on google. You can find everything kipkayify just mentioned on there.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

And you'll find that those are mostly isolated incidents or normal practices thrown completely out of proportion.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

If you think about it, cows only make as much milk as their calfs would need, which isn't really enough for dairy farmers. Cows are milked so often and so harshly that their udders begin to get irritated. Because of this, milk contains just a little bit of blood and pus from the cow. I don't think it's filtered out, but I might be wrong.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/dangers-of-cows-milk/

by Anonymous 13 years ago

I used to think the same thing. The way animals are treated isn't exactly widely reported. Most animal farms treat the animal fucking atrociously, even just for eggs and dairy.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

//Especially// with milk. People don't seem to realize that if our cows aren't milked, it's painful for them.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

The problem is that cows only produce milk when they have a calf. Dairy cows are forcibly impregnated to keep them producing milk, and then they're injected with shit that makes them produce an abnormal amount of milk which leads to painful health problems. Also, cows on regular farms can live 20+ years, whereas a dairy cow only lives around 5 years because their bodies are exhausted from the constant impregnation, and they are no longer "usable."

by Anonymous 13 years ago

These comments were really depressing. And they actually changed my opinion, which is a rarity.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfnVHp19-Io

by Anonymous 13 years ago

One time while deer hunting I accidentally shot my deer's back legs off.

by Anonymous 13 years ago

Anyway, it's not that hard to make the choice to buy eggs that came from well treated chickens, honey that came from bees that were still fine after the removal, etc.

by Anonymous 13 years ago