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If a girl gets pregnant and the father explicitly makes it clear to her during her pregnancy that he wants her to get an abortion or give it up for adoption, but she refuses and keeps the baby, he should not be legally obligated to pay child support, (and vice versa if the father wants to keep the baby but the mother does not) amirite?

27%Yeah You Are73%No Way
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The voters have decided that this post is wrong! Vote on the post to say if you agree or disagree.

I can't decide on this post.
Someone please tell me their reasons for voting the way they did.

Truuninjas avatar Truuninja Yeah You Are +7Reply
@Truuninja I can't decide on this post. Someone please tell me their reasons for voting the way they did.

I voted yes because I think it's unfair for there to be an alternative solution to pregnancy, but if your partner disagrees with it, you have to deal with their personal decision for 18 years. Because sometimes couples do not mutually agree on a solution, it's unfair to forcefully subject them to the decision the other person made. If a person decides to keep their baby against the other's wishes, they should realize that because they ignored the other's decision, it's just right for them to ignore their child support checks as well.

sparesecondss avatar spareseconds Yeah You Are +21Reply
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@1706535

To your first comment* But the argument isn't that its a mutual choice to abort it because you're right, it is her body. It's an argument that if the father doesn't agree with her choice he shouldn't be expected to be full fledged father because it's her body and her choice. If she is saying 'Screw what you think I want this baby' she should be voiding legal rights to take his money. For example over the last few years there were a stream of women who would be crazy and poke holes in condoms and even take the used condom to place the 'contents' inside her. Those womenare basically saying 'I want this (very likely rich) man to be my baby daddy, and thanks to the law I can screw him over big time because when it's about abortion it's 'my body my baby' but when it's child support it's 'our baby that we are mutually responsible for' doesn't that create a grey area here?

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@1706583

You could also argue that the potential out come is an 18 year long outcome, which would be more considered than the 9 months. No I think it should go both ways, if the guy wants the baby it should be taken into consideration before abortion. The thing is that it's hard for an argument to be made that says 'carry this growth in your stomach for 9 months that you don't want because at the end I want it' because that seems like an infringement of her rights. It's much more reasonable to say 'I cannot force you to keep the baby or not because it's your body, but that doesn't mean just because you decide to keep it I have to' I just think it's outlandish for courts to say 'I dont care how this pregnancy came about, i dont care she stole the condom you threw in the trash so she could implant herself, it's half the fathers so the father has to pay for the child, but he also has no legal say in whether the child is kept or not'

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@1706602

Like I've been trying to say every comment, I'm not voting for a complete opposite view from you. I'm not saying "if she goes against his desires he doesn't have to pay; if she keeps the baby he doesn't have to pay, if she doesn't keep the baby he doesn't have to pay. So he wins both ways. But for her, if she does keep the baby she has to pay, and if she aborts it she has to pay in other ways." I'm saying it's unethical and borderline sexist the way it is right now. It shouldn't be the way it is now but the post itself is also kind of an extreme view. I think circumstance and paternal opinions should be taken into MORE consideration, not as the only thing to consider. As of now If a young couple have sex and she gets pregnant, And he says 'We cannot support this baby financially or emotionally. We should consider abortion or giving it away to adoption' and the girl says 'No I don't care what you think, I want this baby, and you've got money saved for college to help out' and he says 'Well if you want to keep it that's your choice but I do not want to be a part of it's life or be forced to father a baby with other options available' the court completely favors the girl/ screws him

@1706535

Exactly, she makes the final choice regarding the baby. However, if the father totally disagreed with her choice from the beginning and would do it differently if he were pregnant, its unfair to make him pay for her final decision for 18 years. If the decision for the baby is not mutual, then neither should the finances.

sparesecondss avatar spareseconds Yeah You Are +1Reply
@spareseconds I voted yes because I think it's unfair for there to be an alternative solution to pregnancy, but if your partner...

You are right.
Sort of like how if both parties wanted to give the child up for adoption they wouldn't be expected to pay for it, which sort of nullifies all the counter arguments I can think of.

Truuninjas avatar Truuninja Yeah You Are +1Reply
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@1706542

What? No, I am in no way trying to make the woman's opinion less valid. I believe that the woman as 100% full rights to make decisions regarding her baby, and I believe that she can abort the baby even if the father says no.

Because I feel that the woman has total override power over the man, it's unfair for the man to be subjected to pay for this baby that could have been give up for adoption or aborted if he had total power. Because I believe the woman has absolute control over her baby, it's fair to give men the option to not pay child support if he signs legal documents saying he would abort/give it up if it were his final choice. Since the man doesn't have the final choice, I think we can give him some freedom to make other choices.

sparesecondss avatar spareseconds Yeah You Are +3Reply
@Truuninja I can't decide on this post. Someone please tell me their reasons for voting the way they did.

I voted no way, because if the father didn't want a child he shouldn't have gotten her pregnant. If a guy decides to have sex he is deciding to risk getting a girl pregnant, and once she is, it is her body and her decision what to do with the child.

Anonymous +17Reply
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@1706569

Then that is something that should have been talked about before getting pregnant. If one of the two is not ready for a child then together as a pair they are not ready and should not create the child in the first place. But I suppose in that situation it would still be her decision because she would be the one carrying the child. For me it is ultimately the woman's decision because it is her body. It is a very tough argument though..

(P.S that was my anonymous comment, I wasn't logged in >.<)

@I voted no way, because if the father didn't want a child he shouldn't have gotten her pregnant. If a guy decides...

By that logic, if the woman decides to have sex, she risks getting pregnant and hold just as much responsibility (except in cases of abuse of course).
Additionally, in life, we are always responsible for our own choices. Therefore, if she chooses to keep the baby despite objections from the father, she is solely responsible for raising the baby. In this situation, however, the father will not have to pay at the cost of not having any paternal rights, including visitation and custody.

lanas avatar lana Yeah You Are +3Reply
@lana By that logic, if the woman decides to have sex, she risks getting pregnant and hold just as much responsibility...

I agree with you in that the woman holds just as much responsibility due to the fact that it is a mutual decision to have sex. However, I don't think the father has the right to knowingly get a woman pregnant and then object to keeping the child if the mother wants to keep it. If he doesn't want a child he should be thinking about that before he has sex. A guy can't object to having a baby if he doesn't object to having unprotected sex. He can solve the problem this way before it exists.

@erinliannaclare I agree with you in that the woman holds just as much responsibility due to the fact that it is a mutual decision...

But the sad thing is we can't turn back time. So now you have a baby, and it's the mother's final choice to decide to keep it or not. I don't believe the father is allowed to make any decisions for her regarding the pregnancy. It's her choice only. Since I believe he is totally helpless in this situation, it's unfair to make him pay for a decision he was not allowed to make.

The point is, my opinion that a mother has completely total power over her body makes it logical for me that the father has the choice to pay child support. (Of course, it must be done with both parties' agreement recorded on a legal document during the pregnancy. I don't think it's okay to call for an opt-out 3 months after the birth of the baby).

sparesecondss avatar spareseconds Yeah You Are +3Reply
@I voted no way, because if the father didn't want a child he shouldn't have gotten her pregnant. If a guy decides...

Do you think that if two people want to give a child up for adoption they should have to pay child support?

Truuninjas avatar Truuninja Yeah You Are 0Reply

If a woman gets pregnant and wants to abort but the father wants to keep it, I say that it is ultimately the woman's decision. I think it should be encouraged that she go through the pregnancy so the father could support the baby but that is a lot to ask and naturally varies by case.
As for the father wanting to abort and the mother wanting to keep it? The father should not have to pay child support. It is fully the mothers decision. If she's not financially stable to raise a child that isn't the father's fault. If she wanted money and stability she shouldn't have had sex with someone without discussing this. However, the same goes for men. If the woman gives birth so he can be a father, the woman shouldn't have to pay child support and the father should have to cover the medical bills. If the father wanted stability and a child, no double standards there- he shouldn't have had sex without someone who had the same intentions. Everyone should be responsible for their own actions.

I have omitted my vote because there are far too many variables.

Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions. The man can't just say he doesn't want it and not expect for there to be no consequences. Everyone who has sex knows what could happen, so they need to have a plan. The plan can be abortion, adoption, or they could keep it and raise it together or raise it separately. If they can't agree, as much as I hate to say it, they shouldn't have sex.

There are quite a lot of places that give fathers (mostly, but sometimes mothers too) the option to give up all rights concerned with the child and not have to pay child support.

SpearmintMilks avatar SpearmintMilk Yeah You Are +3Reply

You don't want to pay child support? Don't cum inside of her.

Anonymous +2Reply
@You don't want to pay child support? Don't cum inside of her.

If the condom breaks and it turns out she's a nutcase who lied about being on birth control and in reality poked a hole in that condom?

Runys avatar Runy Yeah You Are +6Reply
@Runy If the condom breaks and it turns out she's a nutcase who lied about being on birth control and in reality poked a...

It is great that people are using protection and I'm all for that, but they're not a 100% guarantee that she won't get pregnant. People need to be aware of that, and deal with the consequences afterwards, whether it is abortion, adoption, or having a baby.

Basically, what I am saying is: the BEST way to prevent pregnancy (besides abstinence) is probably PULLING OUT.

Anonymous -4Reply
@You don't want to pay child support? Don't cum inside of her.

Just be sure you have a condom on. If you pull out without a condom you can still get the chick pregnant. Basically, CONDOM=GOOD

Jimjambongss avatar Jimjambongs Yeah You Are 0Reply

if pregnancy was accidental? for sure. if it wasnt, then no.

names avatar name Yeah You Are +1Reply
@name if pregnancy was accidental? for sure. if it wasnt, then no.

How do you accidentally get pregnant? "Oops, I fell into your vagina, and came. My bad."
It doesn't really work that way. Besides, I'm pretty sure this whole post is about unwanted/ unplanned for pregnancies (whether it's unwanted by either or both parties,) so your comment doesn't make much sense to me.

Anonymous -8Reply

Vise versa? If the girl didn't want the baby, she could get rid of it. she wouldn't need to pay child support

I think in the end the father shouldn't be forced to legally, but he should at least be obligated to not give up his child or abandon the mother, regardless of her decision.

Should've thought about that before you decided to fool around and have sex.

@mNmL0ver14 Should've thought about that before you decided to fool around and have sex.

I'm so fucking sick of this argument. It's not fair to ask that everyone who has sex be prepared to have a baby. Condoms break. Birth control fails. Or maybe someone just makes one stupid fucking mistake. But someone can take all of the necessary precautions and still get pregnant. People have sex. People of all ages and socioeconomic statuses have sex. It's just what happens and what always will happen.

@ForeverMarauder I'm so fucking sick of this argument. It's not fair to ask that everyone who has sex be prepared to have a baby...

Look, it's just my opinion that people should be more careful about sex, but LIKE YOU SAID YOURSELF, there's always that possibility that it COULD happen and people should be cautious about that ESPECIALLY IF IT'S PREMARITAL SEX like this post is pretty much insinuating.

@ForeverMarauder I'm so fucking sick of this argument. It's not fair to ask that everyone who has sex be prepared to have a baby...

Personally, I don't care if people are ready to have a baby before they have sex. But I do think the possiblity needs to be discussed and they need to figure out how they would handle it if it did happen. And if they can't agree on something as important as this, they shouldn't be together at all.

@pikabeau Personally, I don't care if people are ready to have a baby before they have sex. But I do think the possiblity...

Maybe they're not together; maybe they just hooked up. Maybe they're just friends. Not everyone who has sex is in a committed relationship, nor should that be expected.

@ForeverMarauder Maybe they're not together; maybe they just hooked up. Maybe they're just friends. Not everyone who has sex is in a...

Who said anything about them being in a committed relationship? They just shouldn't be together, meaning they should not have sex together. It's not like I think people need to be ready to have a baby before they have sex, I just think they should have a plan that suits both people just in case a pregnancy does happen. It shouldn't be that hard to find a fuck buddy who has the same plan as you.

@mNmL0ver14 Should've thought about that before you decided to fool around and have sex.

exactly..and who will live with the pain is they ever decide to abort?the female.

Predys avatar Predy No Way +2Reply
@Predy exactly..and who will live with the pain is they ever decide to abort?the female.

It's not like she has to abort. She can still keep it. Besides, this post works for the other gender too. If a male wants to keep the baby then the woman doesn't have to have anything to do with them. Also, I agree with this post ONLY if the opt-out has both parents' agreements. Having the father just completely ditch the mother is not okay. Also, if the father is not legally obligated to pay child support, then he is also not legally obligated for custody or visitation rights at all.

sparesecondss avatar spareseconds Yeah You Are +1Reply

In case you "men" didn't know, sex causes babies. It has since the beginning of time. You made the choice. Simple as that.

@Nerris In case you "men" didn't know, sex causes babies. It has since the beginning of time. You made the choice. Simple...

I don't know how old this comment is because I'm on mobile but I'm replying anyways. The woman made the choice to have sex too and she should know the consequences. People are acting like the fictional girl was forced to have sex and then became pregnant. The both knew what could happen but there are ways out of it. If the girl decides to keep the baby but the father makrs it clear he doesn't want it, it was her sole descision to keep it and shr should have to deal with it because it's the consequence of her actions, not just his.

Statefarms avatar Statefarm Yeah You Are +3Reply

The father should have to pay child support. I think of it like he got into a car accident. He didn't get into the car thinking that he was going to wreck his car. But he did. Now he is at the mercy of the person of the persons car he hit. It would be so unfair if he could dumb a child on the girl he had sex with because she decided to be responsible and keep the kid, while he wants nothing to do with it.

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@1706539

"The short end of the stick?" Seriously, how the hell would women be the unlucky ones in this situation? They still ultimately have the decision whether to abort/give their child up for adoption and therefore whether they're forced to pay for the upbringing of the child. The man, in this situation, has only one of those.

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@1706561

Good. They should abort. They are obviously not ready for children if they can't support them on their own.

Anonymous +1Reply
@1706561

If it takes two to have sex, then it should be an equal decision. If anything men are getting the short end of the stick.

If a man doesn't want the baby and the woman does, hr still has to pay child support.

If a woman doesn't want it and the man does, she can still get an abortion or give it up for adoption. and have nothing else to do with the baby.

Upvote because if it's an accident, the mother has all the power in this, even if the man explicitly says he doesn't want to keep it, hes fucked and has to pay child support anyways.

guitarplayer213s avatar guitarplayer213 Yeah You Are -2Reply
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