+839 Our education system is less about learning than it is about superficially showing that we've learned something. Standardized tests are proof of this. You get shoved a whole textbook of factoids,and then you regurgitate it all in a three hour test at the end of the year. Rarely are we taught the significance and purpose of what we learn; we learn just to show that we've learned. Our educational system goes for the cheap-shot quicky: here's a fact. Memorize it. Repeat it. This is education. amirite?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

My biology teacher makes us show we understand it with lots of application questions on tests and he always asks us why this matters and when we'll use it in real life.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I wish I had teachers like that.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Sure that seems nice, but it's not really necessary. You don't need to understand why what you learn is important or how you will use it: you just have to trust that it //is// important and you //will// use it. At least, if you go into a relevant career field. Once you get into that career, then your employer will tell you what you need to know and how to apply it.The time that teacher used to teaching you the importance of the information could have been used to teach you even more raw information.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

"The time that teacher used....could have been used to teach you even more raw information." I feel like teaching someone the concepts and application of a specific subject not only sticks it in their memory better (for future use in a career), but it also allows them to attack unfamiliar problems. Basically it gives humans the ability to teach themselves -- the ultimate time-saver for teachers, in my opinion.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I can't stand learning stuff if I don't know why it's important.. I've had a few great teachers who actually make the class think, and I end up remembering the information better than when the teacher just tells you to memorize the textbook so you can pass tests and "be successful" in life.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

There's always the IB program!

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That's not true. Many schools don't have IB.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That doesn't make it not exist.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yes but your statement that "There's -always- the IB program" is false.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

No it always exists, just not in some schools...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

One day the sun will explode and kill us all in a firey explosion. Where'll the IB program be then?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Ah, I meant that it's not always an option for students. Semantics.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

UNDERGROUND IN THE SKY. Because that's what people expect our technology should be like millions of years from now.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

A teacher can't stop a kid from memorizing, it's the students responsibility to try to understand what is being learnt, no one makes you memorize. At least not where i'm from they don't.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

but it's the teachers and the nature of the system that put emphasis on it. If you don't memorize random facts, you fail and get reprimanded.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Well i'm from Canada so maybe there is a difference in the system, but there is nothing we learn that cannot be understood as opposed to memorized, at least not in the highschool level, in the university level sure but then those factoids generally serve a useful purpose.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I'm from Canada. Ever taken Biology?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I've defiantly never been able to properly learn in a "just give me the facts and I'll memorize them" sort of way. Yet, I have to learn my way around because that's really the only way our "system" works. Apparently, the faster you learn, the smarter you are. I just think it's the teachers responsibility (as the //teach//er) to approach the class in a way where everyone will see the "big picture" and actually be excited about what's next.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Think of it this way. Our current system is: "2 x 2 = 4. 2 x 3 = 6. 2 x 4 = 8. Memorize that, it'll be on the test. Take notes." It does not tell you why 2 x 2 = 4, or why 2 x 4 = 8. It tells you what to remember, but when it comes to something a little larger such as 20 x 7, you have no idea what to do. The system SHOULD be: "2 x 2 = 4. 2 x 3 = 6. 2 x 4 =8. This is because 2 x 3 is basically easier addition. Imagine three 2s. 2, 2, 2. The equation is technically 2 + 2 + 2, but to make it more easy to read, it's written as 2 x 3. So, 2 + 2 + 2 is 6. 2 x 3 is 6. Know this method, and it'll make the test much easier." I was never taught the latter. I was taught to memorize my multiplication tables and had to figure out the latter for myself. The sad thing is, half the students in my honors geometry class have trouble multiplying without a calculator. It is a terrible way of learning. You don't even learn, you memorize, without getting the simple reasons as to why which, in case you can't remember, you instead look back on the tactic. "I can't remember what 20 x 7 is!" versus "20 x 7...well, I know if I write 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20, then add it together..." Much better.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That's was probably the best way anyone could have ever said that. Bravo.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Hmm, that's exactly how I learned multiplication, though. My elementary school teachers taught me that it's basically advanced addition, in a way.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Someone asked my math teacher when we would use what she was teaching and she was like never but I have to teach it for the test

by Anonymous 12 years ago

"When would we use that in life?" "If you become a teacher."

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I asked my teacher that once. She said "Your test on Tuesday" and kept teaching

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I asked my french teacher the same thing and she was like, "Oh, I don't know! What you're asking is a Ph.D level question! I'll look into it and get back to you on that." To this day, she still hasn't gotten back to me on that.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

A lot of the stuff people are taught is important for if they want to go to university and do a technical subject such as engineering or physics, but I guess a lot of people aren't really interested in these things and they'd rather be out on the streets making their own money.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

But a lot of it has to do with just being an informed person. History, Literature, and Science are all classes like that. As for other subjects: if you learn a foreign language, it makes it easier to get a job, and travel the world (to a certain extent) for math, it really only helps if you go into certain fields (as dzmax said) but there are actually A LOT of in demand jobs that involve being good with numbers i.e. engineers, actuaries, accountants, etc

by Anonymous 12 years ago

And a it's also just learning simple logic. You may beer use your skills to find what kind of graph a polynomial makes, but how you got there may be applied to other areas.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

One of my classmates asked my geometry teacher that. He said, "You'll use it if you become an architecture...or...a geometry teacher."

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I'm gonna be bold here and guess that architecture isn't in your career plans...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

this is why classes like math, physics and some chemistry are important, they're not just memorization, they require actual thought.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Just like English, History, Geography, Foreign languages and the vast majority of other school subjects.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Actually Math, Physics and Chemistry are sometimes worse than English, History, foreign languages.. etc.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

History is the worst in terms of memorization, unless you are looking at it in the perspective of philosophy.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

If you got a job that would use history, the stuff you memorise at school is the kind of stuff that would actually help with your job. And even so it isn't about memorising one or two things, it's about learning a bunch of things for each exam, and learning how to write about them.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

For me, that's the way I like learning. Throw in an analytical essay on the topic, and I will show you that I actually learned something. Memorization is my thing, but I will say it does not help me at all with conceptual math where it might with formulaic math.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't think teaching to the test is good, hence my YYA, but some can still learn a lot this way, like in APs, which are classes created for a test. Classes set on memorization are not always bad.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

My classes are focus heavily thinking, debating, analyzing and talking about why it's important. Is it bad if I thought, until now, that all schools had classes like that?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I'd say a good 95% of schools don't have classes like that. Do you go to a public school?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Public but I'm in the gifted program. That might affect it

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I can almost guarantee it's a private school. I've been to both public and private and I would say that the two private schools were much more actual learning based while the public schools were based primarily on just getting kids to pass the classes.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Being in the gifted program definitely does. At my school, the honors classes are more about analyzing what happened and why it is important. However, when I was in regular, it was just about learning the facts. Especially in the history classes. I guess they figure at my school that those who actually care will try and figure out why something is important, and those who do not care will just go with what they learn. Being in smarter classes doesn't even count for anything until junior or senior year either. It is just part of the world. You must be motivated to figure out why something is important or else you might be missing out.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

In those classes, there will always be an assignment, a discussion or the teacher will straight out say why it's important. There isn't a lot of motivation required to know the importance in my case but we've already established how my educational experiences probably aren't the norm.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I know that even though the AP world history course teaches to the test, it doesn't try to teach you what the correct answer to every question is, it teaches you patterns in world history that you can use to choose the best answer to a question.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Education should be privatized. Competition between schools would drive prices for schools down and completely rid of a large portion of our taxes. Teachers would be of a higher caliber as the private schools would be able to pick from teachers outside of the union based on prior credentials. Of course, what you pay for would be what you get and that is where the problem lies. Although I do think that it would be better than current school system.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That's a good idea, but some people can barely afford food and rent for their kids, so paying for school would be out of the question.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That is true, but the sharply decreased taxes may compensate for the cost of the school. It's not a perfect system, nothing is.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

That would be terrible. As someone from a working-class family, we barely have enough to pay the rent and buy food. Jesus Christ, paying for school would mean that so many kids won't get to go to school. I wouldn't be able to, and I'm smart. That would be the perfect way to keep the poor and uneducated poor and uneducated and the rich and educated rich and educated.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I don't think you understand. The need for education would create many schools, the schools would have to offer competitively low prices to make a profit. In essence, you are already paying for school. By making school a private sector business taxes for education would be able to be completely removed from federal and state taxes. Also, I would not be opposed to a subsidy to low income households.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yeah, just like the colleges have competitively low prices, right? That would never happen.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Derizion, I don't think you understand. No matter how low the prices are, they can still be too much for a lot of families. It would be like the college process but for ten year olds. So instead of people not going to college because they can't afford it, it would be 10 year olds not going to elementary school. Great.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

The school system attempts to teach you how to learn. Attitudes like this aren't helping anyone's cause!

by Anonymous 12 years ago

While I agree with you, the post is essentially saying that they are teaching us to learn the wrong way. What kind of person would simply learn what works in an actual field of work without actually determining why it does so? So while schools do teach us how to learn, they also teach us in a manner that allows for reproduction of work, but not so much further innovation. I might be wrong but I think that's what OP was thinking

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Thank you for expressing my thoughts in perfect words.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I think students should be allowed to opt out of memorizing information if they know for sure they won't be relevant in their future career. Right now if you did that, you'd fail the class and have to retake the entire school year. You should be allowed to choose to fail a class without such extreme repercussions, or even not take the class to begin with.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yeah, but many people change their minds many times before finally choosing their major.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

But even in college you're required to take all these classes you don't even care about the first two years :/

by Anonymous 12 years ago

And in the end, it makes you a better and more well-rounded person.....

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Op. are you Tyler durden?

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Personally, I think it's completely pointless to "learn" all the information taught if if will quickly be forgotten. The things I will remember from school are not necessarily random facts, equations, dates, etc., but the experiences I've had in school and perhaps even the mistakes and struggles I've endured. My English teacher completely agrees with the post and had us learn in a new way this year that just doesn't involve simply memorizing. We actually had opportunites to debate and discuss important topics, and watch videos that really just make you think about the purpose of life and living. Just stuff that makes you think. On the other hand, teachers don't get payed enough. Even if a lot of stuff students learn is memorized, we're still learning something in most cases. We still have an education, and most teachers work hard to help us get that. Our society wouldn't be the same without teachers, and they just deserve a lot more than they get in my opinion. Overall, the school system is completely fucked up though.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

yeah, I agree, but that's english. Our AP English teacher is the only one that actually cares for education. She taught us how to analyze EVERYTHING, which is good for critical thinking. She could probably find the meaning of life through the description of a zit. for the ap test, the only practice for the multiple choice portion were 1-2 practice tests. that was all. She also showed us a lot of Chris Hedges and interesting ideas. It irriates me when I see people writing essays with a format. Other english teachers try to "teach" how to write an essay "clear thesis, state each paragraph with 'my first topic...my second topic...my third topic'. That's not learning, that's just conforming to a format.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Unfortunately, my teacher still made us set up papers in a certain format. Which I guess made her somewhat hypocritical, but the topics that we wrote about were different than most usual topics you'd see. Papers that made you think and really showed your opinion, regardless of the way it was set up.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

This post is really ironic cause this was the topic of one the passages I had to read for the SAT's on Saturday... It's like they know, yet they do it anyway..

by Anonymous 12 years ago

The system is terrible where I live. Teachers receive hell for failing a student. If a student slacks off in class and skips or simply doesn't try and the teacher has to fail them, the teacher has to go though paperwork to explain why they failed. Our board then goes through all marks in all the schools and asks "why is this school receiving these crappier marks compared to this school" then gives the crappier marked school hell for having crappier marks. When really all they are trying to do is teach properly and fail the students that deserve it. Its easier to just pass everyone with good grades. This happens all the time at my school. We have some really good teachers but a lot of them are giving up and making deals with students and parents. Parents will also go and complain about a student not getting a mark they want and blame it on the teacher when the student simply doesn't try and expects the mark.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

I was just talking to my friend about this not an hour ago. She just took the chemistry SSATs, and one of the questions expected her to know which of two elements was higher on the activity series. There are two ways to be prepared for this sort of question: either memorize the entire activity series, or learn some trend among the elements that will allow you to guess which would be more reactive. Of course, our school, and the test, expected us to have memorized the activity series, since we learned no such trend.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Amen.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

This is very true. Traditional, public high schools have trained me well to memorize a ton of information for a test, and then immediately forget it, so I can memorize something else.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

My university is very keen on the understanding not learning of the information, it was a difficult change to adapt to when I first started. I don't understand why if universities can do it, schools can't.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

This is education for people who just want a GED so they can get out of school and start working on street corners. For people who actually want a career, education actually means something and being able to understand the concepts is equally as important as being able to remember details from textbooks - for these people, the two things are actually one and the same. Those prospective street workers just don't see it like that, and so for them it is just a memory task with the end goal of regurgitating enough to get a decent-enough GPA for a dead-end job.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

And this is why I like Montessori schooling better than regular

by Anonymous 12 years ago

It isn't so much WHAT you've learnt, it is the fact you can understand and use information in questions and situations, to then further you're knowledge. My teachers reply to the question "when am i going to use this in real life.." "you're life starts when you're born not when you graduate, so you will use this to pass tests to get grades that get you employed." Which i suppose is true...

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Sounds like you failed a test and you're using amirite to vent. Seriously, how else are schools supposed to test kids? I hate fucking idiots like OP who, after spending 5 minutes thinking about it just because they got a shitty grade, think they can reform entire systems that are built on generation after generation.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

Yea but if you're talking about the US school system, it really is pretty shitty that needs to be reformed.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

This was discussed in our english class. Don't judge and bash on me with nothing but assumptions as proof. Even if I did fail (I did not) why attack me? I'm just trying to say that schools seems more about memorizing than understanding, which is not real education at all. This is amirite, why am I not allowed to share any ideas I find interesting.

by Anonymous 12 years ago

School (more primary and secondary than college/uni) is so much more about learning to conform to social constructs and obeying a "higher" power, which has to be used later in life with businesses and all that shit. My dad always tells me "learn what the teachers want, that's how you pass," and that's terrible, if you think about it. It really has little to do with actual comprehension, and most schools could care less as long as you do well on tests. Of course this pertains to just US school systems since I don't have experience anywhere else. Sorry for the rant. smile and I'm not saying kids/teachers *can't* or *won't* go the extra mile and actually understand the information, certainly via AP and IB courses you have a better chance at that, I'm just saying the school system doesn't give two shits if they do or don't.

by Anonymous 12 years ago