+250

Any Atheist claiming to be truly Atheist and not Agnostic is just as closed minded as a religious person claiming they KNOW God exist. No you don't. Not a single one of you can honestly say that you KNOW a god does or does not exist. Personally I believe in god as much as I do in Santa. But I have no way of proving that he either does not exist and because of this I am forced to admit to myself that pure Atheism is inconceivable, amirite?

66%Yeah You Are34%No Way
Scientists avatar Religion
Share
26 176
The voters have decided that Scientist is right! Vote on the post to say if you agree or disagree.

Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Actually all science has done is disprove modern and ancient gods. Not a god. Sure all religion has literally negative amounts on its side but atheism has 0 proof. 0 > -20 which is why I don't believe in religious gods and science suggest that there is not even A god to believe in. But there is still no proof. All things not definite should be open to change. And the only thing I believe is definite is math. 5+5=10. Nothing will ever change that statement unless another variable is added in in which case it is no longer the same statement. But like I said in the post, my belief in a god is as strong if not weaker then my belief in Santa Clause or even that there is an Army of monkeys on Neptune. But I can not definitely prove that there is not and so I must be open to the possibility of being wrong.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +33Reply
@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

I'm not sure you fully understood the purpose of Schrödinger's cat. Let me explain with a picture I just stole....
http://ctrlv.in/97953

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +16Reply
@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

"It means you BELIEVE there's not a god."
Not even that. It means the lack of a belief in a god. Agnosticism is under the general umbrella of atheism.
But anyway, most atheists are agnostic atheists, who do not believe in a god but do not claim they know so, while most theists are gnostic theists, who claim they know for sure that there is a god.

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

"God either exists or he does not. There is no in between."

You say stuff like that, but somehow you still accuse people of being closed minded. Religious beliefs are a matter of opinion, no one can be right or wrong. It isn't an either or question, it's far more complicated than that. Denying that is really closed minded.

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Also, this post is basically saying "I am agnostic and anyone who isn't agnostic is wrong."

Yeah, that's about as closed minded as you can get when it comes to religion.

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

I agree with Moose - I think for the most part, Atheists stress more the idea that they have no reason to believe in god yet and so don't, rather than any sort of vehemently definite "there is no god" statement - although I don't deny that that type of atheist does also exist. If the post is referring only to them, then I will change my vote...but it's hard to prove that it's only talking about them so...I guess I can't

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Just to clarify, atheists believe that there is no God and it is impossible that there is anything apart from pure science holding the world together. Agnostics believe that there is probably something out there, although it is unlikely that it is a man/entity/one god that controls everything. So it is still possible to have a belief in a "higher power" without believing in, specifically, "God".

Anonymous +1Reply
@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Okay I'm sick of these notifications. Without reading the actual argument, I'll settle this.

No matter how hard you try, it's very unlikely you'll change someone's religious beliefs over the internet. DONE, NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP AND MOVE ON!

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Okay, if God's existence comes down to a simple yes or no answer, you should easily be able to give your own clear, specific, and universel definitions of:

God
Existence
Belief
Knowledge

And it shouldn't take you a long time either.

The truth resists simplicity, there's more to it than just a yes or no.

Nobody claims to know these things for sure, but they have faith. Theists have faith in the existence of God(s), and atheists have faith in the nonexistence of God(s), that is what defines religious beliefs. Someone who says there is no God is just as correct as someone who says there is a God. You're probably thinking something to the effect of "No! Only one person can be correct!", and you're just being closed minded again. There is no real way to prove God's existence, but you don't need to have proof to form your beliefs, to "know."

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Just because you can't prove it doesn't mean there's not one answer. I really don't see how there could be more than one answer. It is a yes or no. However trying to figure out which one is when it becomes difficult. I don't know how that's being close minded. If I die and realise there is a god then there IS a god. That's no longer up for debate.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are 0Reply
@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

I can already tell you're not even listening to what I'm saying.

Can you prove any of the atheists/theists claiming to know about God's existence wrong? Nope. You throw around terms like ignorant and closed minded, but if you cannot prove that they actually are wrong, you have no grounds to say such things.

It doesn't come down to a simple yes or no. If it did, you would have already included those definitions I asked for in your comment.

"I really don't see how there could be more than one answer." That's very, very simple. There is no proof. That means that everyone's answer is an opinion. And opinions cannot be right or wrong.

Yeah, sure, if you die and discover God, the debate's over. But you're dead, you can't send us any proof (the word proof, by the way. has little to no meaning when discussing religion). It's even more so if you die and there is no God or Heaven. That point you made is irrelevant.

If you were open minded like you claim to be, we wouldn't be talking about this because you wouldn't feel the need to even say these things and you'd be able to respect people who know there is a God and people who know there isn't without accusing them as you are.

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

And if you don't think those last three lines make sense, you either need to change your mindset or stop talking about religion on the internet.

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Yes. They are opinions. But they are opinions on a factual matter. You're not looking at the big picture. Yes to an individual person all religion, atheist or not, is opinionated because there is no proof. But I'm not talking about people. I'm talking about the universe. People are biased. The universe is not.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are 0Reply
@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

I do see what the OP is getting at, but I think there's a critcal element missing. It's definitely true that the God as described by Abrahamic Religions either exists or doesn't - that's impossible to deny. He's either there or not, right? But, taking the word "God" in a broader sense, and accepting all potential definitions of what "God" might be, then the OP is wrong to presume a yes or no answer, because we cannot really be sure what god is.

Anyway, by the standard set by religion, we can definitely answer the question yes or no.

As for the atheist/agnostic - I'm not sure about drawing the two together in this way. Atheism is the BELIEF that there is NO God. Agnosticism is not knowing one way or the other. I may not be able to prove there is no God, but I still believe that I am right and that there isn't one. That makes me Atheist. If I have no idea and am sitting on the fence, then I am agnostic. The two are definitely distinct.

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Oh dear god make it stop. I don't give a fuck about this discussion but I keep getting notifications for it.

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Chasing_Echos: I could go on about how you don't seem to understand what the universe really is, or what it means for something to be factual, but that doesn't matter.

I'm going to agree with SomePony, this argument has crossed over into the realm of pointlessness and is stupid to even continue. You're not listening to me, I no longer wish to listen to you or anyone on this subject, I say we stop talking about this and let it die.

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

God either exist or he does not. There is no in between. Much like Schrödinger's cat. However ironically enough you are still on the right track because, like the picture said, it was used to show that they can't both be possible.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -3Reply
@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

There quite literally is or is not a god. That's not close minded it's just the way is. And if you want to look at as "I am agnostic and anyone who isn't agnostic is wrong." fine. But what I'm really saying is anyone claiming to KNOW, indefinitely, is lying to themselves.

@TommyUK1234 Those are the people this is directed to. I consider myself an Atheist but I do not claim to KNOW so I am technically agnostic. So this is only about those who claim to know.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -3Reply
@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

I'm an atheist and here's my stance. I think there isn't a chance there is a god. Why make assumptions based on something with no proof, when there's plenty of science with actual proof?

@guineasaurusrex Being an atheist doesn't mean that you claim to KNOW there's not a god. It means you BELIEVE there's not a god.

Belief has the ability to be altered. Universal fact can not change. Atheist act as though the non existence of god is a universal fact.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -34Reply

If true belief in God exists, true non-belief in God can also exist. That's exactly what it is though; I BELIEVE there is no God, I don't know that there isn't. It works the same way that belief in God works, just in the opposite direction. That doesn't make it agnostic, though.

@Adria If true belief in God exists, true non-belief in God can also exist. That's exactly what it is though; I BELIEVE...

That doesn't mean that true atheism doesn't exist. Atheism works the same way as any other religion; it's all based on beliefs, not fact. It still exists and is separate from being agnostic.

@Adria If true belief in God exists, true non-belief in God can also exist. That's exactly what it is though; I BELIEVE...

As I said in my post. I believe in God as much as I believe in Santa. But that does not mean there isn't one. Same with people who believe in a god 100% that does not mean there is one. Personal belief in no way alters truth and that is why personal belief must always be open to change until an answer is definite.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +8Reply
@Adria If true belief in God exists, true non-belief in God can also exist. That's exactly what it is though; I BELIEVE...

Of course I'm referring to only humans who can develop their own beliefs. I thought that was without saying. As long as there is religion, there is always going to be people who are atheists. It's just how people work.

@Adria If true belief in God exists, true non-belief in God can also exist. That's exactly what it is though; I BELIEVE...

But that's like saying you hate the word Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism... anything to do with religion really. I'm not really disagreeing with you, it's just that atheism works like religion does. Christianity or any other religions wouldn't be needed if there were no gods either, but since it will most likely never be proven, religion or atheism will always exist. Really, people only really use words like Lutheran or Protestant to express their beliefs as well.

@Adria If true belief in God exists, true non-belief in God can also exist. That's exactly what it is though; I BELIEVE...

One more. I also hate the word atheism. That word wouldn't be needed if there were no gods. So if we did definitely prove there isn't a god, atheism and religion would cease to exist. I only currently use the word to express my beliefs.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -4Reply
@Adria If true belief in God exists, true non-belief in God can also exist. That's exactly what it is though; I BELIEVE...

However. Seeing as it is literally impossible to prove something is impossible, the best we can do is answer definitely the creation of the universe. Technically gravity is just a theory. But no one disputes it because of how irrefutable it is. If atheism were to ever take over we would need to answer all questions in the same manner as gravity.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -8Reply
@Adria If true belief in God exists, true non-belief in God can also exist. That's exactly what it is though; I BELIEVE...

No. Before there was religion there were no atheist. Atheism can not exist without religion but religion can exist without atheism. A sponge does not believe in god. This does not make it an atheist.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -9Reply

I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they don't know what I've felt. I also don't think that makes me close minded though because I'm always open to listen to other people's ideas, while still standing firm in my belief

Fanatics avatar Fanatic No Way +17Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

Well I've just recently become a Christian, so it's not something I was forced into. I have done my fair research on tons of religions. Christianity just makes sense to me and gives me peace

Fanatics avatar Fanatic No Way +11Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

Not even a little bit. I really want to know how you felt his presence and how you know it was him and not some other natural phenomenon.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +10Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

Well then I'll stop. But only cause you two have been awesome in this. Irony, although we clearly disagree I don't think you have yet directly told me I am wrong and I thank you for that. Sobriquet you have remained unbiased and that is one of the things I respect most in a person so thank you as well. This has been fun and I hope to see both of you again on this site.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +10Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

About the trinity, the best way I've heard it explained is they are like an egg. One is the yoke, one is the egg white, and one is the shell. They are all God in a way, but they are different; one is the creator, one is the savior, and one is a personal guide that fills you when you accept Christ. About the devil, the bible tells us that he was an angel. This means that his power is greater than a humans, but less than Gods.

BigTRexs avatar BigTRex Yeah You Are +9Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

Yeah, I guess it's true that I don't have legitimate proof that God is real, but I am certain in my heart that He is

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

I can't say, I'm not them. I have no right to tell someone their belief is wrong. All I know is my personal relationship with God, and that's all I try to focus on

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

You're right, that probably wasn't the best way to phrase it. The way I see it, I deserve eternal Hell, but God gives me mercy and grace because I have searched for Him and have faith in what He says.

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

I believe you should open your mind to all of it. Every religion. Figure out which one makes the most sense to you and stick with it. If you only open up to one you can only let one in. And that's just not fair.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +6Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

Exactly. Basically, Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

Sorry to whip out the gospel, but that's why I believe I deserve Hell

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

-Adam and Eve weren't born with original sin.
-Jesus is not God.
-Jesus didn't kill himself.

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

I refuse to admit that the belief that someone deserves eternal hell just for being born isn't insane.

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

And yet there are people who feel the same way and more about different gods. Does that make their god real too?

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +5Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

But if Jesus has powers we do not that would at least make him a demi god. Along with all the angels. Technically Satan is a god too.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +5Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

Sobriquet, personally, I believe that you have to open your heart to God and search for Him

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

a god is any supreme being who can perform miraculous acts that defy the laws of the universe.

And by for my sake do you mean because I might get smited or because I might offend someone. Because the first I'm not scared of at all but the second I'm nice enough to listen to.

And I thought that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were all one being separated in to three. Like a horcrux or something but with the ability to have all three active at the same time.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +4Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

That's how I feel, except the opposite. Like, I know in my heart that God is real, but I wouldn't tell anyone they're wrong, cause who knows, I might be the wrong one.

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

Jesus was divine and human because he was God's only son, but God and Jesus are two different things.

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

A lot of people dying or having near death experiences have stuff like this happen to them and typically attribute it to something spiritual. Actually there is a naturally occurring chemical in your brain called DMT. It's the worlds most powerful hallucinogenic substance and we get small doses of it when we sleep at night. This is what causes us to dream. Right before death your brain actually floods itself with DMT. That's why so many people who are clinically dead but not mentally dead claim to have gone to the after life. This chemical has been smoked for over 10,000 years by South American tribes to make direct contact with their God. So yea, I'm going to say they were hallucinating.

And for "that feeling" you get. Relationships are a familiarity to an emotion. If you are typically happy when talking about god you will be familiar with this emotion and associate god with happiness or comfort. That's why every time I see my best friend I get happy but every time I see someone I don't like I get upset. And some people say "Well I never actually saw the person." Well your brain did. Whether you know it or not you detected their presence because of their pheromones.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are 0Reply
Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

Just being born isn't what makes someone deserve hell. It's the sins that they commit that make them deserve it, and since we were born into a sinful world, everyone is bound to commit sins in their life.

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

It was just a connection I felt that I can't really describe. It was kind of an overwhelming feeling of peace and safety and love all at once

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

I am 100% that no god exists. I still consider there to be a chance there is a god.
Although these statements seem to contradict each other, they in actually don't. There are infinite possibilities, so the chances of of a god existing are 1/infinity. Therefore, my certainty that god doesn't exist is 99.999999999...% which equals 100%.

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

That's actually pretty cool and I see what you're getting at, but I don't think it's just a warm feeling of comfort. Feeling God's presence is so much more than that to me. I get chills and I honestly feel like when I talk to God, He's there, because to me, He is. It's a whole relationship that I have with Him and I have given my life to Him. I don't think that's something a 15 year old girl would do if she only felt some happiness and comfort

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

They are the same as in they're both divine, but you said that Jesus and God were the same thing, and that's not true.

@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

Well I thought all Christians believed in the trinity but she just said they weren't the same so I assumed she didn't believe in it. I fully understand the trinity. I was just wondering about her beliefs.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -3Reply
@Fanatic I truly believe in God because I've felt his presence. I don't think anyone can tell me that I'm wrong because they...

That's where it gets tricky for me too. They are all one in the same, but the Bible also says that Jesus is God's son, so they are different things.

Knowledge and belief are two totally different things. I can not KNOW if God exists but I can BELIEVE that he doesn't, which makes me Atheist. No one KNOWS without a doubt that God exists, which makes everyone Agnostic by your reasoning.

Religion PsOTD are my least favorite. (cry2)

Statefarms avatar Statefarm Yeah You Are +12Reply

I believe there is a pink fluffy bunny at the centre of the universe. If you say you know there isn't, would you consider that close minded or just common sense? That's the way i view God. It's not being close minded, it's just common sense. All logic and reason shows us that there is no god. It's just common sense.

Anonymous +10Reply
@I believe there is a pink fluffy bunny at the centre of the universe. If you say you know there isn't, would you...

ono smilie You guys don't get it. It's not a matter of whether or not there is a god. It's a matter of accepting that you can't prove that there isn't. No matter how much you might say you know there isn't you can not provide any scientific evidence to say that there was no creator.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +11Reply
@Scientist You guys don't get it. It's not a matter of whether or not there is a god. It's a matter of accepting that...

Anything asserted with no proof can be dismissed the same. Religion claims there is a god, they have the burden of proof. Not us.

Anonymous +4Reply
This user has deactivated their account.
@1746267

Not quite. God is an human invention. Due to contradictions and impossible claims in religious text (eg a being cannot be all powerful, all knowing and ever present) we can deduce that those gods are fictional. Since we the concept of god is man made and we can prove the ones we know don't exist, I'll go back to the point of the post, why then would it be close minded to assert that there is no god? It's not like i'm saying "I don't believe in god because fuck religion." i've thought it through a thousand times and the only logical conclusion i can reach is that there is no god.

Anonymous +2Reply
@I believe there is a pink fluffy bunny at the centre of the universe. If you say you know there isn't, would you...

I can't prove you wrong. You're right. Which is why even with all probability against it I have to accept that I don't know. And that, by the way, is what my post says. However. Your fluffy bunny doesn't affect my life as heavily as religion has so the attention I give to it will be incredibly small. This is also why I don't search for fairies.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +3Reply
@Scientist I can't prove you wrong. You're right. Which is why even with all probability against it I have to accept that I...

You don't have to because i didn't provide any proof or basis for my hypothesis.
Another thing, just like we know that all religious gods past and present cannot exist, we know that mammals cannot survive in the vacuum of space. So does it make sense to believe that this is a special bunny that no one knows about or that the bunny doesn't exist?

Anonymous +2Reply
Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +2Reply
@Scientist I didn't say we had to. But if your goal is to have a definite answer you do.

Ok. I believe there is a pink fluffy bunny at the centre of the universe. I have no proof and no logical reason for this belief. The only thing i have that suggests this is a 2000 year old book written by people who rode donkeys and lived in stone huts. But if you want to dismiss my theory, you have to use perfect science to do so. Also, if you don't except that my belief has just as much credence as yours, then you're arrogant and close minded. Prove i'm wrong. You can't! - that's basically what your post says.

Anonymous +16Reply
@I believe there is a pink fluffy bunny at the centre of the universe. If you say you know there isn't, would you...

I'd like to see how you proved that a being cannot be all-powerful, all-knowing and ever-present.

personThingys avatar personThingy Yeah You Are +1Reply

No.

I don't believe there is a God, thus I am fully atheist. I don't ask for proof of this, as there is no way to prove something like that, but it is that I do not need proof that there is no God in order to believe so that makes me an atheist. The same goes for theists.

By your logic, everyone HAS to be agnostic, and not being so automatically makes them closed minded. There's a reason we call them religious BELIEFS and not religious knowledge.

Team Agnostic Atheists

ScottyDs avatar ScottyD Yeah You Are +8Reply
@ScottyD Team Agnostic Atheists

Yah, and we have way better coffee and food.

ScottyDs avatar ScottyD Yeah You Are +11Reply

Basically there are four categories of belief. There are gnostic atheists, who claim they know there is no god. There are agnostic atheists, who claim to not believe in god, but are not sure of his existence. There are gnostic theists, who claim to know there is a god. And then there are agnostic theists, who claim to believe in god, but are not sure of his existence. What you're talking about are gnostic atheists. I agree that gnostic atheists can't be right, because how is it possible to prove that something doesn't exist? However, most atheists are agnostic atheists. In that sense, you can be both an agnostic and an atheist. And I think you're misguided in your definition of the term "atheist". A true atheist only believes there is no god. For example, I am both an atheist and an agnostic, and I can be. It simply means I don't believe in god, but I'm not claiming to know that god doesn't exist. It's just highly unlikely in my mind. This is an excellent explanation:
http://imgur.com/eU3bj

@griffs28 Basically there are four categories of belief. There are gnostic atheists, who claim they know there is no god...

I think you didn't fully understand my post. I clearly stated I have no belief in a god but that does not mean that it isn't open to change. The purpose of this post was to address all those who are gnostic atheist and explain the absurdity of their certitude.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are 0Reply
@griffs28 Basically there are four categories of belief. There are gnostic atheists, who claim they know there is no god...

Okay, as long as you're only addressing gnostic atheists. It just seemed to me that you were saying that all atheists should be agnostics, and I just wanted to clarify that you can be both an atheist and an agnostic at the same time. I think we're pretty much on the same page here.

Oh it's this POTD phrased differently again. Beautiful.

Anonymous +7Reply

All I know is the argument, "lol.. christians believe in an invisible man inthe sky" is the dumbest argument an Atheist can give. It clearly shows they know nothing of Christian belief.

StickCavemans avatar StickCaveman Yeah You Are +7Reply
@StickCaveman All I know is the argument, "lol.. christians believe in an invisible man inthe sky" is the dumbest argument an...

I know, but there are some Atheists out there trying to use it as one. Their technique is ridiculing and making fun of Christians by stereotyping them from a few radicals of the group.

StickCavemans avatar StickCaveman Yeah You Are +7Reply

I claim to be truly atheist because that's what you call someone who -believes- there is no God. Agnostics may be more inclined toward atheism or theism, but they don't have a strong tendency either way. There isn't a distinct line between atheism and agnosticism, but (to paraphrase Richard Dawkins) I am agnostic about the existence of God to the extent that I am agnostic about the existence of fairies. It's impossible to be certain about the nonexistence of anything, so we might as well call those who -believe- there is no god 'atheists'.

It's not atheism, agnosticism, and theism. Refer to the following chart and stop being ignorant.

http://ctrlv.in/102087

@AdonisBatheus It's not atheism, agnosticism, and theism. Refer to the following chart and stop being ignorant. http://ctrlv.in/102087

Oh, okay. So, technically, it's not possible to be a contratheist because you can't prove nothing, which is the point OP is kind of trying to make with the wrong terminology. Right?

@AdonisBatheus It's not atheism, agnosticism, and theism. Refer to the following chart and stop being ignorant. http://ctrlv.in/102087

I don't understand how "it's not possible to be a contratheist because you can't prove nothing", you can't prove an existence or lack of existence of God, but you can believe that there is no God.

Anonymous 0Reply
@AdonisBatheus It's not atheism, agnosticism, and theism. Refer to the following chart and stop being ignorant. http://ctrlv.in/102087

What exactly is the difference between Atheism and Contratheism? I've never heard of the latter before.

@AdonisBatheus It's not atheism, agnosticism, and theism. Refer to the following chart and stop being ignorant. http://ctrlv.in/102087

Not exactly. The former sounds like belief, the latter sounds like fact. One's unclear and the other's definite.

@AdonisBatheus It's not atheism, agnosticism, and theism. Refer to the following chart and stop being ignorant. http://ctrlv.in/102087

I s'pose so. It is possible to label yourself as a contratheist, though. And it could be possible to be a contratheist if you're only referring to the current deities that exist and not the concept of a god or multiple gods as a whole.

@AdonisBatheus It's not atheism, agnosticism, and theism. Refer to the following chart and stop being ignorant. http://ctrlv.in/102087

There are going to be a lot of things in the world you've never heard about.

It explains the difference in the quotes below the titles. Atheism is "without belief" and contratheism is "belief against" which is the complete opposite of theism.

Huh.
I'm sorry to inform you, my friends, but you've all made a terrible oversight. You've been so busy debating science, religion, and philosophy, you haven't noticed that 69% agree and made the appropriate jokes. For shame.

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. By this train of logic you have to be "agnostic" towards everything. Is there a floating teapot orbiting Neptune that becomes invisible and undetectable once within our radar? We can't prove if it does or doesn't exist definitively so I guess you have to be agnostic towards the teapot.

"Agnostic" is not a term on its own; you can be an Agnostic atheist or a Gnostic atheist. Gnostic meaning a definitive belief. The majority of people that consider themselves atheist admit there isn't a way to ultimately prove if god does or doesn't exist and are Agnostic Atheist. Their position is just kind of a way of saying "there probably isn't a god".

I'm glad you've put yourself in a position where you feel superior to both atheists and those that are religious, but you don't really understand what atheism is. Plus, this way of thinking means you have to be "agnostic" towards everything you can't prove for sure.

@HotKoolAid What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. By this train of logic you have to be...

I am agnostic towards every thing I can't prove. Because I can't prove it. I know exactly what I have said. You and others have read my post and said "No you're wrong. Most atheist will admit they don't know. Well that makes them agnostic. I say I'm an atheism simply because I don't like to explain my agnosticism but I know that absolute atheism, gnostic atheism, is ignorant.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -2Reply
@HotKoolAid What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. By this train of logic you have to be...

In fact let's look at that. Gnostic atheism is ignorant. Pretty much every one agrees with that. So if you're not gnostic about something doesn't that make you agnostic towards it?

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -3Reply

Atheist just believe that there is a no God, they don't know it as most Christians or Jews BELIEVE that there is a God

Being 100% certain of anything is impossible, so of course it's arrogant for an atheist to not also be agnostic. Some atheist don't choose to identify as agnostic because it's just a waste of time to say atheist agnostic, at least that's my assumption and my case.

Oh, hell yeah. y smilie

This user has deactivated their account.
@1763084

That you have a shitty dealer?

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are -2Reply

You've managed to take the most accepting and tolerant belief system and make them seem just as intolerant and obnoxious as everyone else, so well done for that.
"If you're not agnostic you're obnoxious and wrong. Agnostics accept all belief systems as equal, except ours, which is best."

@Truuninja You've managed to take the most accepting and tolerant belief system and make them seem just as intolerant and...

Agnosticism is not a belief system. It just means you don't know for sure whether a god exists or not. You can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist.
If you claim that you know for sure that God does or does not exist, you are wrong, because there is no proof either way.
You seem not to understand what "tolerant" means. If someone kills and rapes a thousand people, and you are a police officer and don't try to arrest him, I wouldn't call you "tolerant." Also, you just said agnosticism is the best "belief system" and then criticized the OP for apparently saying the exact same thing.

personThingys avatar personThingy Yeah You Are +1Reply

Meh so in a nutshell what the op is trying to say is simply this , True atheism cannot exist thats the simplest way to put it.

Anonymous +2Reply

Loved the comment, but don't agree. I really think that Atheism is just a belief, rather than making any statement of fact. As an atheist, I believe that there is no God, but I also accept that I cannot prove it. Therefore it remains my belief. I don't think it makes you close-minded, especially if you've made the decision after hearing A LOT of arguments from both sides. It would be close-minded for someone who claimed to be atheist without knowing any of the evidence on either side. Perhaps it's a question of attitudes. Anyone pushing their beliefs as pure fact is pretty much what you're describing up there, regardless of what that opinion might be.

I'm pretty sure you KNOW Santa isn't real. The same can apply to a god. And I'm not saying my belief can't be changed, I'm just saying as of now, I'm certain there's no god.

Tim5os avatar Tim5o No Way +2Reply

There is a huge difference between believing in Santa and believing in God. We all used to believe in Santa, without any proof except for the presents under the tree, until we finally found out from our parents that they were the ones who actually got us the presents, and there is no Santa. And then there was proof later on that he doesn't exist when we started choosing our presents with our parents and they bought them in front of us, with no other gift from Santa. As for God, there is no proof right now that he doesn't exist, while there are several proofs (whether small or believable or true or fake) of God existing. I fully believe in God, and no religion isn't my only evidence.

Anonymous +1Reply

That reminds me of something I heard once.
If an atheist says that there are no absolute truths, is he contradicting himself?
Because saying that there are no absolute truths would be stating an absolute truth.

ihearandomusics avatar ihearandomusic Yeah You Are +1Reply

Who says we have to be labelled as either? Can't we just coexist?

Anonymous +1Reply

I believe in God, and I am certain He exists. I do not think He exists. I don't think there is a question. So, though I have no proof [well, not to everyone], I would phrase it as that I know He exists.
I get that 'know' isn't maybe the right term because I don't have proof, but I don't doubt that He exists. So maybe believe is the term I am looking for.

Personally I think this whole debate is stupid. Religion is the biggest scam in the universe, every last one of them. Year is 5000 years ago, guy comes up with religion, 3000 years later, another guy on the other side of the world comes up with a religion that's completely different and hasn't heard of the first guys religion or the concept itself. Now what the fuck do you see here? Filthy fucking liars! Both claim a god or gods, or spirits, or ghosts, or cosmic energies or whatever the hell talked to him and told him all about the universe.
This is not a question of do you believe in a god or not its if a Religion is legit. Mormon and Scientology one of the newer Religons of the world, pretty much everyone agrees on how much bullshit they are, both creators were known con-men.
Worst thing about Religion it's so perfectly worded and created it's hard to object it which is why most of the human population has one!
You have a creator, but you can't sense him in any way and there is no way to prove his existence and all you have is my word but if you don't believe what I'm saying you will go to a bad place when you die. Seems fucking legit but fuck it I don't know any better!

A - prefix meaning not, or without
Gnostic - Of or relating to knowledge.
Agnostic - Not knowing
If you claim to be agnostic, then all are you saying is "I don't know anything".
If you are an agnostic atheist, you don't think there is a god, but you don't know. If you're a gnostic atheist, then you know there is no god.
If you're an agnostic theist, you believe there IS a god, but you don't know which is the true god, if you're a gnostic theist, you know there is a god.

Those are the only options unless you are saying "I don't know anything about anything".

Codays avatar Coday No Way 0Reply

lol Internet flame war

Big_Bosss avatar Big_Boss Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Big_Boss lol Internet flame war

Actually, most of the comments on this post have been relatively mature. I enjoyed reading them y smilie

Anonymous +14Reply
@Big_Boss lol Internet flame war

Still kind of silly if you ask me.

Person 1: I believe in this.
Person 2: Well I believe in this.

/endthread

Big_Bosss avatar Big_Boss Yeah You Are +7Reply

The word agnostic has nothing to do with religion. If you claim to be purely "agnostic" then know what the word means.

Codays avatar Coday No Way 0Reply

Anytime a religious person prays to god or speaks about him, they are saying he does exist. It is no different from claiming there is no god.

@Egotistical Anytime a religious person prays to god or speaks about him, they are saying he does exist. It is no different from...

Atheism is not all about certainty. Atheism is all about believing there is no God. I don't believe in God, but I can't prove he doesn't exist because it's impossible to prove a negative and lack of evidence to support something is not evidence against it.

@Egotistical Anytime a religious person prays to god or speaks about him, they are saying he does exist. It is no different from...

Well I suppose I'm not certain God doesn't exist, I just feel it is highly unlikely. Although, I wouldn't call myself an agnostic because that would include religious people also.

Agnostic alone does not mean anything. It just means that you think information can not be gained from the particular subject as opposed to gnostic beliefs who think that information can be gained.

Proper term would be agnostic atheist.

Anonymous -1Reply
This comment was deleted by its author.
@1746171

That's what I'm here for.

Scientists avatar Scientist Yeah You Are +6Reply

Atheism is not believing in a God, not knowing there isn't a God. Knowing and believing are two very different concepts.
And on a slightly related note, some stories in the Bible have been scientifically proven to happen, meaning that these events could have occurred, but not by a god's hand. But this is just speculation and a fun little thing to look in to.

G0d is reel. He told meh <333

YAYYYYY another deep POTD with a bajillion comments going nowhere
....d smilie

@Favvkes YAYYYYY another deep POTD with a bajillion comments going nowhere ....

You only don't like it because you have to post loads more comments to get the attention you're so desperately going for.

Anonymous +17Reply

This post is ridiculous. Atheism by DEFINITION is "knowing that there is no god". If you merely BELIEVE it, you are and Agnostic-Atheist.

Anonymous -5Reply
Please   login   or signup   to leave a comment.