+150

"Coming out of the closet" is a cruel concept that perpetuates the idea that gays are somehow different. The only difference between me and my straight brother is that he like girls, I like guys. Why is one objectively to be considered "normal"? I'll agree to "coming out" when my older brother has sat down with my mum and dad and told them calmly and collectedly that he likes to bang girls in their snatches --- thus making "coming out" normal. amirite?

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I demand all straight men be forced to tell their parents that they "like to bang girls in their snatches". That shit would be Hilarious.

ScottyDs avatar ScottyD Yeah You Are +111Reply

Just because the world has become more accepting to gay people does not mean that gays aren't different. Please don't get me wrong, just because I think gays are different doesn't mean they should be treated differently though, and I support gay rights, but there's a reason there's this huge conflict over gay rights and gay marriage; because being gay is different, and it has been for centuries. Who knows maybe in 50 years it would become more common and accepted, but right now it's not.

Anonymous +37Reply
@Just because the world has become more accepting to gay people does not mean that gays aren't different. Please...

Gay people are different and a minority, just as many other groups of people are. But "different" and "bad" don't mean the same thing. We shouldn't pretend that everyone is the same; we should celebrate that we're all different.

@Just because the world has become more accepting to gay people does not mean that gays aren't different. Please...

Also, you can't say "gays are different" in any meaningful sense anyway because as I also put forward in another post, there's no such thing as a gay personality or gay identity. It's just a sexual preference and that's it. Anyone who claims there IS a gay personality is just following popular trends set down by prominent individuals. It has created a phenomenon I have dubbed "pink fascism"

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +4Reply
@Just because the world has become more accepting to gay people does not mean that gays aren't different. Please...

Right. And what I'm referring to is a more fundamental thing. When I say that gays and straights are not "different" - what I mean is that we are all expressing the same fundamental feelings, just in a different way. Gays are NOT different when you take things down to their base level, and that's what I think is importanat.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +2Reply
@Just because the world has become more accepting to gay people does not mean that gays aren't different. Please...

Then maybe you could have mentioned that in the post instead of saying, well, not that...

I always thought the 'coming out of the closet' was for gay people that hid their sexuality, not because they were different...

dan94s avatar dan94 No Way +34Reply
@dan94 I always thought the 'coming out of the closet' was for gay people that hid their sexuality, not because they were...

@Bonsly I would venture to say that most gays don't realize their sexual orientation until later in life, and it can take a long time to figure out if it is more than a phase and to accept it. I began to realize I was gay at the end of my 6th grade year, which is around when most people start developing an attraction to the opposite sex. I didn't believe it was anything more than a phase until 2 years later, when I accepted that it wasn't going away. Now, I'm 15 and my family has believed I was straight for 15 years, whether I lied or not. Generally speaking, whether you are just saying, "I'm dating this guy named Jake," nonchalantly, or if you sit your family down and tell them, "I'm gay," it's going to be "coming out". And the reason his brother (or my brother, for that matter) doesn't hide his orientation is because no one cares. He isn't bullied or judged for it and he doesn't have to fight for his rights because people think he is less than everyone else. But god forbid OP and I break social conforms . . .

Anonymous +19Reply
@dan94 I always thought the 'coming out of the closet' was for gay people that hid their sexuality, not because they were...

Right. I wrote this because I believe it's inherently wrong for gays to have to go through this process. And people replying "well, you have to because being gay isn't common or accepted yet" - screw that. Would you have told martin luther king to shut up because blacks were not accepted as real citizens or even equal human beings to whites yet? The point is there is something fundamentally wrong with how gay people are perceived, and attitudes need to change.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +3Reply
@dan94 I always thought the 'coming out of the closet' was for gay people that hid their sexuality, not because they were...

Well, yes, that can happen, but I think that's a different argument. The post is just about the degrading convention of coming out.

Anonymous +1Reply

I never told anyone. I just assumed they knew and if they asked I would look at them inquisitively "You didn't know?"

@Scientist I never told anyone. I just assumed they knew and if they asked I would look at them inquisitively "You didn't know?"

YES. that''s exactly what I do. I put a post in the forum about it before. In the "how did you come out" thread. That's where I got the idea for this post!

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +2Reply

First off, I never thought of this as gays not being equal; it's just an expression. Second, straight men and women don't have to come out of the closet because it's the social norm, most people are thought of as being straight at first. Also, most parents want grandchildren, and would never consider that their own children might be homosexual. But even if straight people had to come out of the closet, your brother wouldn't have to say he liked to "bang girls in their snatches", but rather that he likes girl. You wouldn't say "I like buttsex", you would say "I'm gay" or "I like men".

AnnDeevas avatar AnnDeeva No Way +12Reply
@AnnDeeva First off, I never thought of this as gays not being equal; it's just an expression. Second, straight men and women...

I guess. But I like to think that a lot of parents care more about their childrens' happiness than having grandchildren which are biologically both parents'.

@AnnDeeva First off, I never thought of this as gays not being equal; it's just an expression. Second, straight men and women...

Absolutely. Grandparents who care so much about the genetics of things are just being silly.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +5Reply
@AnnDeeva First off, I never thought of this as gays not being equal; it's just an expression. Second, straight men and women...

Being gay doesn't rule out any possibility of having children. I'm still planning on having them.

I YYA'd cause you said 'snatches' y smilie

Chewbanshees avatar Chewbanshee Yeah You Are +11Reply

I just woke my dad up with my laughing. He was angry until I showed him the post, then he understood.

Aimzs avatar Aimz Yeah You Are +9Reply

Sorry dude but it isn't the "normal" thing in this world (talking about majority and numbers) to be gay, only due to the fact that most people are straight. However that's not to say there is anything wrong with gay people. Like users above me have pointed out, people are assumed to be straight, until they are informed otherwise. We should celebrate and accept our differences, instead of trying to make everyone the same. Some groups must do different things in order to meet their own specific needs. What if, for the sake of equality, everyone, male or female, must go through the extensive menstrual lessons in primary school. But of course, common sense dictates that only the ones in need of this specific thing(ie the females in this case) should have to do it.

Anonymous +9Reply
@Sorry dude but it isn't the "normal" thing in this world (talking about majority and numbers) to be gay, only due...

It's a point about being in a minority. If you take things to enough levels, many of us are in a minority of some sort. What does it actually mean?

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@Sorry dude but it isn't the "normal" thing in this world (talking about majority and numbers) to be gay, only due...

you know what a crock that is? According to numbers, it isn't "normal" to be christian or white. There are more muslims and Chinese in the world than both of them. The idea that I should be treated so differently because I'm not part of a majority is astonishing and frankly offensive.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Sorry dude but it isn't the "normal" thing in this world (talking about majority and numbers) to be gay, only due...

In addition, this idea is not trying to make everyone the same, but showing that many of our differences are superficial and should not form the basis of such sweeping judgement. It used to be general thought that black people were inherently inferior to whites. And now? This view is thought of as utter tosh. The point is, you can't talk about what is accepted now as the be-all and end-all reason for me to relent on this point.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Sorry dude but it isn't the "normal" thing in this world (talking about majority and numbers) to be gay, only due...

sorry hate to break it to you but there are more christians than muslims. i don't really know what that has to do with anything though

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@1757996

I, 100%, agree with your comment and I'm really sorry for this, but: accept*

@1757996

I apologize if you thought I was making assumptions. but my point is not that being different is bad, but that perpetuating difference can be damaging. I believe that dealing with these issues requires people to take their thinking down to a much more fundamental level. Gays are NOT different from straight people on a fundamental level, only on a superficial one. Gays have emotions, they feel love, pain and sadness the same as straight people do. In my mind, this makes us the same. The idea of "coming out" perpetuates the idea that being gay is something to confess, to admit. And that is what is wrong with it. I shouldn't ever have to consider this "confession" to people - but should be able to just answer candidly when asked, or when the topic arose naturally. There should be NO distinction. That is what the post is about.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@1757996

On this point I cannot agree. But that's not a bad thing necessarily. I have my own way of looking at it. I can never accept the argument that "that's just the way it is so just deal with it" - a lot of things were "just that way" but have now changed. I believe very strongly in the inherent wrong in perpetuating what i see as unhealthy acceptance that gays are fundamentally different from straight people and therefore must go through different steps.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@1757996

More acceptable? haha, please don't alter your stance purely for my benefit. I'm not a rebellious mob that needs to be pacified. I'm only trying to highlight what I see as a real problem. If you agree then that's awesome, but if you don't then it just means I have to do more to convince you. Specific differences are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. And that's what I'm trying to get at here. The thing about straights also having to "come out" was really just to clarify my position. What I oppose is the idea that straights should be considered more usual or normal and therefore do not need to have any discussions with family or friends about their sexual preference.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@1757996

Despite all this, it doesn't justify or explain why "coming out" is something that SHOULD be undertaken by gays. If people choose to assume as a rule of thumb that everyone is straight unless obvious signs say otherwise, it's testament to their own ignorance. The ignorance of the majority is not my problem, and I don't see why I should accept it.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@TommyUK1234 Despite all this, it doesn't justify or explain why "coming out" is something that SHOULD be undertaken by gays. If...

Nobody said that gays "should" come out, it is a personal decision. In my own opinion, coming out is telling your friends or family that you are gay in a "sit down, because this is going to be some heavy information" manner. So far only one person on this post said being gay is wrong IN THEIR OPINION and you jumped on it. They stated they don't mind gay rights, they think it is wrong but still remain neutral everywhere outside of their own head and possibly discussions.
Also your point about Chinese being the "average" it would not be accurate to say everyone else contradicts the average, I assume people i talk to on the internet are a straight white male living in the US because i am, and i believe that until im presented with information that tells me otherwise. It's not wrong, you just assume people are the same as you (not sure about gay people perceiving others' sexuality because im straight) because that is what you live with, that is what you know best.

@1757996

It's a question of being treated differently for things that are beyond your control. Don't you think that it's just inherently wrong? The idea that we should just accept that we have to be treated so differently by the world because there are not as many of us is ridiculous. How would you feel if you were among a minority. And if you're a white christian, you ARE part of a minority! Globally speaking

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply
@1757996

by that logic, being chinese is more normal than being white. using numbers in this way is the road to fascism!

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply
@1757996

It has to be accepted that being gay is normal. That's the point here. You can't just quote numbers and say what's normal. In this world of ours, Chinese outnumber us whites by far. Should we therefore consider being Chinese the norm - if you stretch it further to east asian, the gap gets even bigger. You can't deny the major logic flaw in saying that there are more straights therefore straight is normal. What's "normal" is having some sexual orientation, whatever it might be.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply

When I have kids I'm not going to make any assumptions. I'll use gender neutral terms if asking them whether or not they have a significant other or like anybody. It may seem extreme, but I don't want any of my children to feel as if they have to "come out". They can just like who they like.

ForeverMarauders avatar ForeverMarauder Yeah You Are +6Reply
@ForeverMarauder When I have kids I'm not going to make any assumptions. I'll use gender neutral terms if asking them whether or not...

That's awesome! If only there were more people like you. This is EXACTLY what I'm getting at with people. But they keep coming back with "well, you're a minority so you just have to accept being different and being treated differently" - what a crock. The fact is, as with race issues, there SHOULDN'T be any issue - it shouldn't be any consideration whether or not someone is gay/straight or black/white.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@ForeverMarauder When I have kids I'm not going to make any assumptions. I'll use gender neutral terms if asking them whether or not...

"Everyone is different, everyone gets treated different. You try to change that you end up dying on TB." -Dr. House

Anonymous -2Reply

The reason "coming out" exists is NOT because gay people aren't normal, but because of the simple fact that most people are straight, and people tend to assume you're straight unless you tell them otherwise.

@ExtantDodo The reason "coming out" exists is NOT because gay people aren't normal, but because of the simple fact that most...

yeah we've heard this in the thread already. it doesn't make it right. People assumed many things about others and it was socially acceptable, but things have changed over time. The point of this post, is to demonstrate that the necessity for difference in this aspect is wrong, since now more and more people agree that being gay is just part of nature and it's part of who you are. I didn't choose it, and that means that I'm being "forced" into this by convention. I rejected that convention. But many many people told me that I should embrace it. The post contains strong words, simply because I feel passionately about this. It's in no wat discouraging people from "coming out" if it's what they want. It is simply attacking what I personally see as a cruel and unfair social convention that perpetuates differences between equals.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply

I love this to death. Bless this post.

Rysias avatar Rysia Yeah You Are 0Reply

I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people to assume you're straight if it's not immediately obvious to them. If you don't feel like you need to "come out", then you don't have to. Just let people find out on their own.

@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

Exactly. You don't see it. Your point seems to be that because it's what everyone is doing, we should just accept it. There was a point in history when everyone was actively supporting enslavement of other people. And a time when people assumed the Catholics were right about everything. Didn't make them right. And it doens't make your assumptions right either. Why do you even bother making the assumption in the first place? You make it sound like something that we all NEED to do.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +4Reply
@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

but don't you see? I'm not talking about being "insulted" really - I'm talking about what's wrong with the way people perceive and think about it as a notion. Statistically speaking, you should assume everyone you talk to online in Chinese or at least east asian - unless something leads you to assume otherwise. Would you assume that by talking to an American you would first think of a white person? These so-called statistics mean nothing in reality.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +3Reply
@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

What I mean is that if I'm talking to a guy and he tells me that he went on a date last night, unless I know any better I'm going to assume he went out with a girl because that's what statistically most likely happened. If it turns out he went out with a guy, that's great, but until he tells me otherwise I'm going to assume he's straight because it makes more statistical sense then assuming he's gay. If you want people to not make those kinds of assumptions, you have to indicate that you're gay. It's not because being gay isn't normal or natural, because it is. It's because it's such a minority that unless you're very outspoken or "flamboyant" or whatever, it probably won't even cross people's mind. I'm an atheist and people assume I'm religious until I tell them otherwise, and it's kind of annoying but I understand that them doing that isn't supposed to be an insult to my viewpoint. (And yes, I understand that being atheist is a choice so it's not quite the same, but hopefully you get my point)

@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

GOD OP your bloody fucking retarded! If someone tells you 19 candies in a jar are blue and one Is red and you grab one with your eyes closed you assume the one you grabbed is blue. That's STATISTICS, it doesn't mean the red isn't normal or natural it means statistically it's less common so it isn't a logical first choice if you were to guess. Someone who takes that scenario and treats it like you should assume it's just as likely to be red as blue because red is just as normal is an idiot. Get your shit together, and I'm not answering you.

Anonymous +2Reply
@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

safer? What kind of world do we live in where we have to put such weighty consideration into things that many now know to be natural and beyond others' control. There shouldn't be any assumption. If we accept that homosexuality is part of nature, then it is NORMAL. So, why continue the nonsense of talking majorities and minorities? White christians are not a natural majority in the world - should we start treating them differently?

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

I don't really think about the nationality of the people I'm talking to online but yeah, if I'm speaking in English to someone online I guess I would assume they're white. That doesn't mean that other nationalities aren't normal, but if I have to make an assumption I'm not going to assume they're Native American or Chilean or something that's not nearly as common. Then again, if I'm talking to someone online in Chinese, I'm probably going to assume they're Chinese when really they could be German or something. And if I'm walking down that street in West Hollywood and meet someone, I'm probably going to assume they're gay. It has nothing to do with what's "normal", but what's more likely in the situation I'm in. These assumptions don't change the way I treat them, so I don't see how it harms anyone

@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

Well it's pretty difficult not to make assumptions about anything. When you enter into a situation and your begin to analyze it, you (or at least I, I guess I can't speak for you) automatically make assumptions. When I meet someone, I don't consciously say "Oh, I think they're gay/straight", it's completely subconscious. And considering that it in no way effects how I treat that person, I don't really think it's fair to compare it to the enslavement of an entire race

@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

Anyways I feel like this has kind of gotten away from the original point of the post: Because sexual orientation is not something that people can discern easily (like race or gender), and because the vast majority of the population is straight, some people feel the need to "come out" so that everyone can find out at once and they won't have to worry about mix ups (like a relative asking if they have a girlfriend). That doesn't mean that it's not normal or acceptable, and it doesn't mean that you have to come out if you don't want to. I used the example of me being an atheist earlier, and again I know it's not exactly the same but instead of "coming out" and just telling everyone at once (which is apparently something atheists actually do) I just let it come up naturally. If you don't want to come out because you think it's insulting or whatever then don't do it. It's your life, just go about it normally and let people find out when they find out

@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

Yes. You're not wrong. The way I see it though, the very notion of coming out serves to perpetuate (that's really the key word I wanted to stress there) the idea that gays are somehow different. Because it turns being gay into something to "confess" as it were. Something to admit to. Now, I know that that isn't the actual way people always feel about it, like they're confessing to something, but when you look at it objectively, that's pretty much what it does. Just as being of a particular religion isn't usually something you "come out" about, neither should being gay. It's just part of who you are.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply
@TommyUK1234 Yes. You're not wrong. The way I see it though, the very notion of coming out serves to perpetuate (that's really...

Being gay IS different, you aren't "confessing" to being gay unless you are uneasy with the concept as most people initially are. Often times a young gay boy will be uneasy with the thought he is gay, he will be afraid, he probably won't be okay with it and will take a long time to decide he is confident enough in his sexuality not being the social norm that he is ready to tell people, but if being gay is not an issue to someone, then coming out is just informing people, not confessing anything at all

@ali_d I see where you're coming from, but because only 4-5% of the population is homosexual, it's just safer for people...

I won't ask you to answer me, but I don't think you understand what it is I'm getting at. Just think of this way. If we agree (as many now do), that homosexuality is not some kind of informed choice, but in fact a natural state, then why should I be made to feel by others that I have something to "confess" to others? Do social norms require you to step up and tell them you believe the sun is God if that's what you believe? Do social norms require people with OCD to "come out" about it? We are encouraged to be open, but in my mind, being open simply means that if it ever comes up I wouldn't cover it up. However, what I object to is having to go through an "ordeal" of coming out, since it's awkward, and not something my brother ever had to do, just because he's straight. Why should I be treated differently? That's what this post is about. The very idea gays are told to "come out" perpetuates the idea that what we are is not natural, or something to be confessed. If you don't get that, then that's your problem. No one asked you to comment on it.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply
@TommyUK1234 I won't ask you to answer me, but I don't think you understand what it is I'm getting at. Just think of this way...

No one forced you to come out, if you came out it was because you personally felt like you needed to...

See OP is one if those annoying in your face 'I need this and this and this cause I'm gay and I want' kinda gay guys. I miss cool gay guys that were noticeable but not all up in your face about it

Anonymous -3Reply
@See OP is one if those annoying in your face 'I need this and this and this cause I'm gay and I want' kinda gay...

I'm so sorry that my desire not to be treated as a freak or unequal is an inconvenience for you. And FYI, "in your face" is a bit much - no one asked you to pay any attention to the post, or to reply to it. I'm not dancing around your street in a big parade or anything. Get over it. The post is actually talking about how I want less to do with being "gay" in life, since what it's talking about is being treated as an equal.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +3Reply

I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay people are different and are not normal which is pretty obvious. Think about it, normal is the procreation of the human race, which can only be done by a man and a woman. If you judge normal by natural, then gay is not normal. This does not mean they are bad, they just aren't naturally normal. Call it homophobic or anything u want, but it's true.

Anonymous -4Reply
@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

I'm afraid it's not - you see it's the difference between procreation and sexuality. Being gay is about a sexual preference. They are still human beings who are capable of procreation. Being gay doesn't make your sperm any less effective. Your view is pure ignorance at its best.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +3Reply
@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

Also, for a thing to be considered natural all it has to do is exist naturally, which homosexuality does.

@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

Who's making a choice here? I never understand this choice thing. I mean ,for all the people who claim being gay is a choice, how many heterosexuals remember the day and time when they "chose" to be straight. If being gay is a choice, then so is being straight.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

i don't see where the choice element comes in. It's like saying being poor is always a choice. I brought in eye color because you said it was genetic- as is eye color. And another thing is, that when a gay looks back far enough in their lives, they realize that they were gay WAY before they even knew it. Before environment and upbringing had the ability to so profoundly affect us. And, FYI, when most people talk about gay being a choice, they absolutely do NOT mean it has anything to do with environment or upbringing. And the fact that homosexuality exists in nature is proof that it's just a thing that happens. What more do people really need to research about its cause? I mean, really? And anyway, this post has nothing to do with ANY of this. It's about a social convention which I see as unfair and in need of change!

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

So, you come to amirite and look for non-opinionated posts? The site's header is "Post OPINIONS and see if people agree". If being gay is genetic and environmentally influenced, then what of it? What is it you're trying to prove? If you are looking for objective fact, I suggest you find another forum. This site is for opinions! And it would be helpful if you could keep discussion at least relevant to the oP.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

choice means you pick a path and follow it, and therefore can go back on it. I made no such choice. It can't be genetic AND chosen - that's like saying you choose your eye color!

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply
@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

The thing is, my comments are facts. They are beyond disagreement. It's factually proven that homosexuality is both nature and nurture. Saying 'I felt I was gay at a very young age is nit science or factual, feelings aren't analytical. For those people who don't use choice in this way, they're wrong and that's too bad for them. While eye color is genetic, being gay is partially genetic. And I ignore the post, the post is emotional rambling stemming from emotion and it's entirely opinionated. This on the other hand is clear cut facts. It's irrelevant whether you're gay or I'm gay or either of us are pro gay or homophobic, homosexuality is both genetic and choice, choice meaning environmentally influenced.

Anonymous -1Reply
@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

I enjoy Amirite and it's general use, I even enjoy most of the posts. I just ignore/ am disappointed by posts like these, irrationality is unbecoming. I came to these comments because THIS comment thread was dealing with the subject of 'choice' so I've decided to educate you on the subject.

Anonymous -1Reply
@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

Its different, you can't keep claiming gay and strait are on the same level because they aren't. Strait is default, gay is abnormal. Not wrong but still different from normal. And many studies have shown that being gay is both genetic AND a choice. By choice I mean it's decided by environment and up bringing. This is fact, Borge nature and nurture contribute.

Anonymous -2Reply
@I am jumping in the middle of this and I AM NOT reading all those comments, so this may already be said, but gay...

People need to understand that the word 'choice' is used to say it's decided by environment and experience. And it's not like eye color... That's a terrible comparison. MANY studies have shown that homosexuality is Both Genetic and a choice you are either propelled towards or away from by upbringing and experiences in life.

Anonymous -3Reply

Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

Anonymous -7Reply
@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

So you think being able to breed and having an insufferable need to do so in our extremely overpopulated, crowded, impoverished planet is a good thing? Socially speaking, being gay is extremely helpful to mankind as we are oft willing to adopt the ones you heteros abandon or abuse. In addition, if I feel insulted that you describe my nature as a defect, then it IS an insult. Insults are defined by the people who are insulted by them.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +3Reply
@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

But it ISN'T and I can't believe you would continue to think so. Humans and fruit bats cannot be compared in this way. It's not just that there are more humans. But that humans have the capacity to move beyond pure natural instinct. It's relying entirely on purest basest natural instinct that is leading us down the road we are heading --- IE the one to destruction. The sign of evolution in humans now is one that means we transcend these instincts. Being homosexual human is NOT a defect. Being an irresponsible simplistic idiot (regardless of sexuality) is a DEFECT. Also, I never said that all heteros abuse or abandon children. But, how would you feel if some religious nutter told you you would never be a fit father because you're gay, when thousands of straight people have abused, abandoned or even killed their own children? You'll never understand the frustration and anguish that sort of thing causes. And I'm afraid I AM right about it being insulting. You are describing me as broken or inferior because of my nature. I would describe your own mental defects as the greater problem.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +3Reply
@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

OK look. First of all I didn't claim gayness was a superiority - that was made up by you. Second, the word defective is highly offensive, because your attitude is inaccurate and hurtful. If it ACTUALLY came to a real situation of survival, of course I can still be of use to repopulate. My sperm is still good, it's not "defective" as you like to put it. If it really came down to it of course I could do the required task - as I believe anyone could, if faced with that situation. You are being incredibly patronizing, and you don't even see it. You think I'm making petty arguments over semantics. I put it to you that you are totally clueless, but think you know all about it because you know a few gay people. You know NOTHING. I'm telling you now, people like you who keep calling me "defective", I will fight back no matter how you try and justify it. It's an insult. Period.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +3Reply
@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

You may call it semantics, but I take being called defective as a major insult because as simple as you see this matter, I do not. It is not as simple as you are making out, and that is because human beings are not simple creatures, and we have transcended nature in oh so many ways, rendering this idea of yours nonsensical.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +3Reply
@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

A "defect"? My god what century were you born in?

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +2Reply
@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

You equate complexity with being super special or significant? Weird. I never said that. And if you think the argument is getting too off-topic, then let's bring it back. You may not mean defective as an insult, but if I am insulted then it IS an insult --- I really don't understand how you think this is something you can objectively state as not insulting. It's ridiculous. And the statement is inaccurate, because being gay does NOT make you unable to reproduce. That's another point you can't deny. Your original point was that the defect in homosexuality is that we are unable to reproduce, was it not? Well, perhaps homosexuality in the rest of nature would have this problem, but humans do not. Humans are able to contemplate their own existence. And so, faced with extinction, even the gayest of the gays could step up and save the race. But perhaps your ignorant mind is unable to process the idea of "defective" gays being able to comprehend the existence of the human race. So I will continue to take "defective" as an insult, since it's bollocks. Perhaps I'll fight fire with fire and call your brain defective for being unable to think of this before you called me broken.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +2Reply
@TommyUK1234 You equate complexity with being super special or significant? Weird. I never said that. And if you think the...

Stating a fact is not an insult... If i say to an African man "You are African" and he takes it as an insult, that is his own issue to overcome, but it was not insulting to state a fact, and if it was, said African has some issues to overcome with himself in accepting his heritage.

@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

First, I imply, and you infer. But way more importantly, if I am resorting to below-the-belt comments, it's because you're driving me nuts with your adamant objectivity on things that are totally subjective. And your insistance that homosexuality as a defect is nothing short of insane. Saying that you mean no offence by it doesn't make it genuinely less offensive to people. It just adds a cop-out discalimer to your speech.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +2Reply
@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

That's funny. But seriously, perhaps we can't get simplistic about it because it is not a simple enough issue. I am of course going to be insulted by the word defective because I don't think your application of it is either accurate or fair. You're taking it to a fundamental base level and then applying it to vastly more complex circumstances and saying it's fine to do that. And then trying to justify it by saying that you still think gays are great doesn't make it ok. That's what I'm getting at. One more thing, whether or not something is insulting is a subjective matter. If I think it's insulting, then for me it is. It doesn't make it objectively insulting, but then again nothing is. And at the same time you can't say that objectively that it is not insulting.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +1Reply
@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

No I carried on from what you inferred, which was that complexity = transcending nature. Well now youre just being irrationally emotional and lashing out with random insults, I'm trying to have a conversation to further both our views and knowledge. The insult topic is now void, it's not an insult, but you are trying to take it as one regardless, and completely within your rights. It's wrong, but as I've stated before this is a difference of opinions and not facts so an answer won't be found. Just because, through human intelligence, we are able to move around the 'defect' if necessary doesn't mean it is not one. If John the penisless man is able to extract sperm from a residual testical in his body and insert it into a woman for reproduction he too has bypassed the defect through human intelligence, he's still defective but there's still nothing 'wrong' with him. I never said you were unable to reproduce, but if the ability to reproduce is contrary to the genetic code you are born with that's a bad thing in the species survival sense. Please stop calling me ignorant, I'm trying to have a real discussion here of views and beliefs. And I never called you broken, that was your word.

@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

That doesn't make sense, why would you start insulting me 'below the belt' because we have a disagreement on an opinion based argument that can neither be proven right nor wrong as it is in fact an opinion? It's plenty short of insane, insane is inarguably a stretch. It's my opinion, I think it's a reasonable one. I also understand your view, neither of us is insane.

@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

Well that's a turnaround, now you're saying it IS only opinion, despite having said your stance is based on pure undeniable fact. It was you who were trying to turn things into objective truth. I was trying to put across how I felt about it, and all you could do was talk about me getting too emotional.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

If asked about our argument from an outside viewer I would say 'Homosexuality is a biological defect, but he thinks Its not, he is incorrect.' but I would still acknowledge that on an opinion based site your opinion is just as valid, but in the frame of mind and boundries I live in it's objectively wrong. I do think you're getting too emotional, but I also recognize that where your emotion stems from is obviously justified.

@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

My original point was simple enough. I thought original anon was a tool but the base use of the word 'defective' was scientifically accurate. Im not trying to justify it, I don't believe I have anything to justify. I like gay people, that's not a counter argument or a point for my side. I'm just trying to tell you that nothing I've said is discriminatory. Different and definitely controversial but not discriminatory. See now we are just arguing semantics, I don't believe that something can be an insult simply because someone chooses to be insulted. I don't think I can be insulted by 'You are a middle child' by choosing to be insulted. I could take it as an insult and be offended, that's valid, but it's still not an insult. Same basic principle

@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

This argument is all over the place now. John the man with no penis could take it as an insult too, it's still a fact, I still don't mean it as an insult, and it's still not an insult from an analytical perspective. That's fairly simplistic. Humans are INCREDIBLY simple creatures! I have no idea where people got the idea humans are complex or special in any way, were just animals. More sentient than others but still just animals who kill, dominate, and reproduce. Our weapons are our minds just like a tigers is it's jaws. Nature is still making us her bitch like she always has. This is getting more and more opinionated so this argument is getting more and more pointless

@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

Defect is not an insult. I'm not agreeing or condoning what anon said cause he obviously was meaning it as an insult. But it's not offensive to say that the point and reason for all beings and species is procreation so when members of a species can't/won't, it's a defect of that species. From a very analytical point of view

@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

Um, ya actually. For obvious reasons. 'Insufferable need to do so' is called instinct, we are born with it for the sake of survival. If we don't have that instinct, we are defective. Also we are not over populated, it's just a direction we are heading, and as an entire planet we are not impoverished. Wow, I don't think I've ever seen someone as awkwardly discriminatory as you to generalize in that way. The ones you heteros abandon and abuse? Quite an immature way of thinking if you are going to tell me that strait people abuse children while gays are their Saviours. If I say that you are not bald, it's not an insult. Even if you choose to take it as an insult, you're wrong because it isn't. Same basic principle. Homosexuality is found in fruit bats. There are parts of south America where entire groups died off because of random incredibly high amounts of gay fruit bats. These fruit bats are defective, they were created in a way that hindered the survival of their species. That fact doesn't change simply because there are many more humans that fruit bats, the fact that it isn't a problem doesn't mean it's not a genetic defective hindrance on evolution.

@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

Oh god haha I knew you'd get into that. 'Homosexuality is really an evolution forward from the normal! Superiority!'. Ill try to explain this but I don't think you're getting it, I love gay people, as a gymnast I spend every day with 11 of them and they are fantastic guys. And I've had talks with them about how while homosexuality is fine it's not wrong to say from an analytical perspective it's a defect of the natural order of survival. You know what? They agree with me. They understand what I'm saying without getting whiney and angry without actually listening. Being told that by a religious nut would piss me off. Luckily I didn't say that and it has nothing to do with the argument, heres my own random fact: Children of gay parents have a SUBSTANTIALLY higher rate of suicide than strait parents. Does that make gay people bad parents? Of course not! Pray tell what are my mental defects? If I have a friend named John born with no penis, he is defective. I like John, think he is a great guy, and would NEVER call him inferior because of the way he was born, merely different. Both you and John aren't broken, but you are different, and that difference is defective towards survival.

@Because one IS normal! The other is a defect!

Dammit man I'm really trying to keep this simplistic. You made it sound like we as humans have transcended from heterosexuality to homosexuality because heterosexuality is destructive. My point is as humans, because of our population and intelligence, homosexuality is not a big deal. Because of our intelligence we could as you say 'come to a situation of survival' and gays could repopulate. But the core of homosexuality, if we stop selfishly focussing on humans, is biologically incorrect. It has wiped out entire areas of an animal because less intelligent creatures that mate for life homosexually don't make that connection they could and should have repopulated. Its highly unlikely I'm clueless, my metaphors are flawless. I'm not saying I'm right cause I know gay people! I'm saying I have talked to MANY gay people and you are the only one I've ever talked to who gets all yelly and argumentative without considering that my argument is NOT AN INSULT.

It's not normal because you won't be able to reproduce with your significant other

@davidsplanteII It's not normal because you won't be able to reproduce with your significant other

Lol at first I read that as significant brother and I was like WHAAAAAAAAT???

MichaelJays avatar MichaelJay Yeah You Are +8Reply
@davidsplanteII It's not normal because you won't be able to reproduce with your significant other

Yeah, and if you're talking about nature, perhaps nature is bringing the gays forward to adopt and save all the children abandoned and abused by straight people. perhaps if you controlled you male and female parts every now and then we wouldn't have such an overpopulated world.

TommyUK1234s avatar TommyUK1234 Yeah You Are +5Reply
@davidsplanteII It's not normal because you won't be able to reproduce with your significant other

I don't know why your comment is sort of downvoted, that's the truth. Sure you will still have sex, and sure you can adopt a baby, and sure one of the parents can reproduce with someone else and then they will raise the baby together and be his/her gay parent, but it's just not the same. Everyone should stop with this "Being gay is normal" stuff because no it isn't actually normal. There are only 2 sexes in this world and two different man/lady parts for a fucking reason. I still support gay rights and I don't think like those people who say gays will go to hell because no, they won't just for the sake of their sexuality. But in my opinion, being gay is wrong.

Anonymous -6Reply
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