rape is all about power and it doesn't matter how the woman is dressed. this is a barbaric and very ignorant way of thinking
when you are a mother like i am, and your little daughters grow up and start to dress like a "slut" you change your opinion on this matter. especially after one gets raped at age 14. she is not to BLAME, but you don't want her to dress that way
Saying "rape is about power" is from a textbook from the 60s. Saying that is almost as archaic as saying all women who dress like sluts deserve to be raped. They don't. They should be able to dress how they want, but they can't since there are some assholes out there who want sex and will use any means necessary to get it.
If you're a rapist, chances are that you know you're going to rape someone that day. I don't think I've ever heard of spontaneous rape-fetishes developing in the time frame of seconds, because it takes a special kind of sick mind to rape. That being said, do you think a rapist will wait around for the girl with the nicest boobs or the nicest weaknesses?
Think about this: if a rapist sees a female army sergeant topless, is he going to choose to rape her over a timid 15 year old shy girl in a sweater in the alleyway at night? Fuck no, unless he's retarded. Now, if the naked body is such a trigger, why didn't she end up getting raped?
If you don't know the answer to that question, I'll give it to you. It's because the sexual gratification doesn't come from "omfg boobs", it comes from power/domination. There isn't a chance he'll overpower that army woman, which is precisely why the girl who didn't have her boobs exposed will get raped instead of the girl who did in my example.
Well women are much weaker physically than men so it's not that hard to overpower one unless they have a weapon. But that's another discussion. But maybe he wants to rape the girl because the army woman is butch and ugly?
Lol, not any old man is going to be able to take down a woman who has been through decades of boot camp style training. Let's see you last one day in army camp; keep on being self-important there.
What if the army woman was gorgeous and the 15 year old was ugly? Or even better, both of them are absolutely beautiful? Who would he choose and why?
He would choose whoever he wanted, obviously.
Unfortunately, choosing one would get him, at best, a very close brush with death. Furthermore, she will not be legally punished in the name of self-defense. She has the right to kill him (with a piece of broken glass maybe; not using her bare hands)
Yeah, I'm gonna say he's choosing the weak, easy target.
Women are always weaker than men, unless the army woman has a gun, he'll go after whoever he wants.
You want me to believe that a 70 year old grandpa can beat up a female body-builder?
I congratulate you on your trolling/devils advocate skills. Good job anonymous, I will no longer feed you. You're out of words and you know it. Anyway, nice job.
Are you telling me that 70 year old grandfathers are the most common kind of rapist? If not, you need to rethink the whole scenario.
Yes. In fact, did you know that 78% of rapes are committed by those 60 and older?
Nah, I'm just kidding. You don't need to carry on.
All right. I actually believed you for a second :| but okay, goodbye.
Really? Cause I could probably kick Napoleon Dynamite's ass.
Were you educated in the dark ages? This is so fucking stupid I can't even express how angry it makes me. Yeah, there is an element of sexual attraction involved. But no man ever, ever, looks at a "sluttily" dressed girl and wants to rape her more than he would look at a covered-up girl and want to rape her, because no-one (except perhaps a very small minority of mentally challenged people) actually loses the ability to control themselves as a result of arrousal. Rapists tend to go for people who look more helpless, with a lower self-esteem, so they're just as likely to target a girl who wraps herself up in hoodies and sweatpants. The difference between wanting consensual sex and wanting to rape someone IS a power issue. And for most rapists clothing isn't even a factor, they don't even remember what their victim was wearing (read some fucking studies). Furthermore, most victims are raped by somebody they already know, not just randomly out of the blue by someone who can't control themselves.
Your kind of thinking is degrading to both men and women - and its completely illogical once you get past the instinctive slut-shaming. You disgust me.
You seem to know a lot about rape for a non-rapist...
Are you seriously suggesting they may be a rapist because they've read up on these issues?
I was raped when I was younger, and having a better understanding of the issues helped me.
All that long, unnecessary paragraph was was name calling and false information. What a waste of my time.
If I'm wrong, prove it. Research the psychology behind it and read some studies. If your mind has not been changed, you can come back here and share your opinion. But you have no idea how truly harmful your views are, both on a personal level and to society as a whole.
No, they don't rape for power and control. Are you honestly going to tell me that it's impossible for a man to want sex with a hot woman because he finds her hot? That's a very archaic way of thinking
You have a somewhat valid point but rape and consensual sex are very different, most men wouldn't get turned on by raping someone because having a terrified, disgusted woman under you screaming and struggling to get away isn't normally seen as appealing.
Clearly some men do find it attractive or else rape wouldn't be so common
And why do they find it attractive? Oh yeah. They like having POWER over the terrified woman, because if they didn't (like normal men don't) they wouldn't be able to get off on it. Sexual attraction does play a part, but please stop pretending that the desire for control doesn't as well.
If they have a desire for power they would run for fucking president or something. If they rape someone and enjoy it, it's because they have a rape fetish/it turns them on.
Sexual power is completely different from political power, you seem like you're grasping at straws. Rape fetishes do tend to stem from power issues, but then again, most people with specific rape fetishes don't rape, because they know it's just a fantasy and they can control themselves and maybe let it out through consensual roleplay.
Since you seem incapable of understanding, here's the simplified version.
Man: There's a hot woman. I would like to have consensual sex with her = normal person with no power issues.
Man: There's a hot woman. I would like to have sex with her, and I don#t care whether she likes it or not = person with power issues, because they are happy to impose their will on someone else instead of looking for consensual sex somewhere else
Thank God you're out of ammunition. It's good to see that even ignorance isn't without its limits.
Okay I'm fairly annoyed with you calling me ignorant so I'll start again. Rape fetishes are for people who find rape enjoyable. Not for people who find power enjoyable. Power and rape are different.
You've already proved you're ignorant many times over, that's besides the point. Rape fetishes are for people who find the idea of rape enjoyable, but it does not follow that a person with a rape fetish would definitely want to actually rape someone because most people have morals and are able to enact their fantasies in a safe manner. Power and rape are not the same, but they are connected because the only difference between consensual sex and rape is that in the latter scenario one person is holding power over the other.
Just call me ignorant and repeat yourself. That's the best way to win an argument. In all seriousness, people don't enjoy rape for the power. They enjoy it just because it gives them sexual pleasure.
You're the one who is repeating yourself - whenever you're faced with a fact, or a logical argument, you run away and just parrot the same things while providing no logical argument in return, which is why this argument has run its course. I hope that neither you nor anyone you're close to is ever raped, because this is the kind of attitude that makes it so shitty to be a rape victim in our society.
Right, you would know exactly what goes in inside a rapist's mind. Do you have any idea how ancient that way of thinking that men only rape for power is? What about guys who take advantage of drunk women and have sex with them? They don't get power off of that, they get free sex. Which is what some of them want.
That is fucking sick. So you're saying if someone were to knock you unconscious right now rip your pants off and fuck you in the ass WITH THEIR FOOT, because you were physically appealing to them, you would be willing to share the blame?
No, not at all. You're missing the point
Am I? How so?
Well if women know that dressing like a slut will get them raped, they should avoid dressing like a slut. It's common sense really.
Nobody should ever have to try to avoid being raped..It just shouldn't happen. We should go out in whatever kind of revealing outfit we want without having some self-control-less pig touching us.
"I honestly, 100% believe that a woman should be able to dress how they want without being labelled a slut. But society is not perfect, and this doesn't happen. Just like not everybody pays taxes and even if you have the right of way, some jerk goes first anyways, the world isn't perfect." I already addressed this
K repeating yourself did nothing for your argument. And I didn't say the same thing as the person you replied that to.
This is like saying, if there was some really angry person who went on a random killing rampage while you were at the store, "Well it's your fault you decided to go get milk that day.."
You're the one who keeps repeating what other people are saying. Obviously buying milk makes you less responsible than dressing like a slut, since women should at least understand there's a risk of being raped.
Then fucking let it happen.
What the fuck does that mean? Sure, I'll just phone up all the men in the world and say we can't call women sluts any more and no more rapes. Yeah, it's not that simple.
Except dressing like a slut won't get a woman raped...
OP, I understand that you're saying women should protect themselves from rape by not dressing promiscuously, and I partly agree with that, but that and blame do not go hand and hand. If you're not wearing a seat belt and someone runs a red light and you get injured, yes, you probably would be LESS injured if you wore your seat belt, but it's still the other person's fault for running the red light in the first place.
Well then no, I didn't miss your point. I simply took your logic, like you did above, with the robbing, and applied it to another situation. One that happened to be more closely related to the subject at hand.
That would be good in theory, but the vast majority of women are sexually assaulted by people they know. The closer the relationship, the more likely they are to be assaulted sexually.
Yeah but let's say someone steals something from my house and people say "oh, you deserve it". I would be pissed off, I'm not going to lie. But let's say I left my door unlocked, posted on facebook that I was leaving my house, etc. Then I think I should share the blame if I get robbed. The same can be said for rape.
There are ways to prevent, however, the crime was committed by the person breaking in. I would say that it is unfortunate that you believed that you could trust people, but still the fault lies to whoever commits the crime.
I know it's not their fault if they get raped, even if they walk around naked. But if they do, they should share some of the blame at least
There are ways to prevent RANDOM rape, but as most rape is not random, it doesn't matter.
But the question is, should women have to prevent men from taking advantage of them? Or is the responsibility on the men who rape?
Well this post is basically to address slut walk, which occurred when a cop said something stupid when he was speaking at some informational speech about protecting yourself against sexual assault. He basically told them to not dress like a slut, which I agree is stupid. But I think if you would go to such an event, you should at least try to take the help suggested there, however ridiculous it sounds.
Because my comment was about robbery and rape being the same thing. It's not like it was an analogy or anything.
Now let's say you didn't leave your door unlocked, but you were dressed in a nice suit and got mugged. That is the better analogy. Is it your fault for dressing in such a way that made a man think you had money, so he robs you at knife or gunpoint?
No, because if I'm in my own house with a locked door it's breaking and entering
I think Suzywao wasn't asking if your house was broken into while you were wearing a nice suit. I'm pretty sure she meant what if you were walking down the street and were wearing a nice suit and got mugged, are you partially to blame for dressing like you have something to take?
Yes, I am. Just like if I took out my wallet and started fanning my money out. It doesn't warrant the crime, it doesn't make robbery acceptable. But it makes me somewhat responsible.
So you think the person who robs a hobo should get a heavier sentence than the person who robs the lawyer in the fancy suit?
That's not what I said at all. Punishment depends on the amount stolen, too. If you steal five thousand dollars from a homeless guy you're gonna get in more trouble than stealing one thousand from a lawyer in the fancy suit.
You said, "there are aggravating and mitigating factors that determine a sentence. Having the woman dress up like a slut should be a mitigating one."
If that doesn't mean you think the man who raped the "slut" should get off lighter than the man who raped the girl in jeans and a baggy t-shirt, please tell me what you meant. But if that IS what you meant, why wouldn't you apply the same logic to the man in the suit? He was asking for it, wasn't he?
you've got to be fucking kidding me.
This post is sickening. The problem isn't that women dress in a revealing manner, it's that much of society has been conditioned to view women who dress like "sluts" as sexual objects. If you truly value someone as a person instead of looking at them as something to be used for sexual gratification, it doesn't matter how they're dressed. Not to mention, this post assumes that men have absolutely no self-control, which is not true. If you break the law, you are the one responsible for it, not the victim. It's time to stop making excuses for rapists.
why the hell would the way a woman is dressed have anything to do with who commits a violent act??
The person who commits the crime is the person who gets blamed. The reason the act was committed is almost irrelevant in a court of law.
Yeah but there are aggravating and mitigating factors that determine a sentence. Having the woman dress up like a slut should be a mitigating one.
Why can't the woman just dress the way she wants without being labeled as slutty or not?
I honestly, 100% believe that a woman should be able to dress how they want without being labelled a slut. But society is not perfect, and this doesn't happen. Just like not everybody pays taxes and even if you have the right of way, some jerk goes first anyways, the world isn't perfect.
But you'res saying that the way a woman is dressed before an assault should be a factor in determining what sort of sentence the assailant gets.
That's not right.
Men aren't impulsive animals no matter what society would have you believe. A man who has the state of mind to rape someone wouldn't be deterred by the amount of clothing. He's not going to say "she's wearing full winter gear, better not rape her" just as much as he's not going to say "she's wearing short-shorts, better rape her."
Maybe this was already said in the comments above mine, but I don't particularly want to read them. Personally, I think that rape is very extreme, and isn't something you can really provoke. Obviously, if you wear a low cut shirt and a mini skirt, people are going to notice, but they should have the self control not to rape you. Even if you're walking around completely naked, people should be able to control themselves. That being said, however, it's not smart walk around naked or in overly skanky clothes, because people aren't always good, which is why rape happens.
"I honestly, 100% believe that a woman should be able to dress how they want without being labelled a slut. But society is not perfect, and this doesn't happen. Just like not everybody pays taxes and even if you have the right of way, some jerk goes first anyways, the world isn't perfect." I already addressed this I think
It helps when people repeat the same question four times.
Like I said, I wasn't about to read all of those comments. But I appreciate you letting me know that it was, in fact, already said earlier.
why come here and not read the comments? it is like mc donands with out the fries..!
Sometimes I just don't feel like reading through 50 comments just to share one idea, especially since at least some of them are probably completely unrelated.
And when a philantropist gets mugged, he should share a part of the blame. http://ctrlv.in/122122
I think that could be completely fake
It is fake, obviously. That's why they state 'this is a rape analogy'. This is the kind of mindset people who dress a certain way or don't like society determine their sex life have to deal with if they get raped because some people believe they should get part of the blame because of the way they are. The only person that should get blamed for the rape is the rapist, and should stop blaming the victim for simply living how they want to.
I think grass is green.
Would you please explain to me what kind of dress makes a woman accountable (partly or not) for rape? Take societies other than the one you know, like England in Tudor times, women had there boobs pushed up and out showing off as much as they like and it was perfectly acceptable however god forbid you see her ankle. Early Aboriginal societies where people did not wear clothes. Does that mean that if I walk around naked I'm a slut? Or perhaps showing my ankles is far to promiscuous for polite society. Tell me what is defined as dressing as a slut and I will show you a time or place where that is perfectly acceptable or would other wise be seen as weird because they are in fact wearing clothes at all. If even one man in those early aboriginal societies could walk among all of those sluty naked women and not rape them then why can some men in the society that you are familiar with have the added benefit of clothes and still want to rape them. What makes a low cut top any more sluty than jeans being worn above your ankle?
Rape happens because a rapist rapes someone. It has nothing to do with people's fashion choices.
The fact that you left the exact same comment twice in different spots makes me doubt your claim.
sorry i thought one didn't appear, when i refreshed both did.
tis entirely true. it is not a claim, merely a statement of fact.
Somehow I feel like this post is about the OP raping someone and trying to blame someone else for it.
I've seen a lot of people at my school dressed innaporptiatley, or "slutty". So the point of this, is that most of them were raped? If someone is more likely to get raped because they dress like a slut, don't you think there wouldn't be as many people dressing like that?
I think you're missing the point regardless of how you dress or act, there is no justification for raping someone. There is no shared blame. The blame lands squarely at the feet of the rapist, rape is a disgusting crime and should never be made into something other than what it is, revolting.
Provocative clothing is actively supported by our culture and media, does a girl wearing a short skirt deserve to be raped for wearing a short skirt which is sold across the world? No. Just like a girl wearing a discreet dress or some jeans, where is the line between slut and acceptable? There is no such thing therefore any argument of this kind is redundant.
Also men get raped too, I don't see any argument of this kind being used against male victims of rape and you know why? It's because men aren't encouraged to dress in a "slutty" nature from the moment they are born.
Obviously, but that's irrelevant to the post.
if you're gonna dress like a slut in public, be ready to put out
who are you to decide who is dressed like a slut and who isn't? And who says that the way you're dressed can determine if you're ready to have sex or not?
if i am your mom I am going to decide
This is my post, please keep it mature by not swearing.
Okay that's not even an argument. You can ask people to not swear, but just because it's your post doesn't give you ultimate power over the words people use.
I wasn't arguing with him anyways, he replied to someone else. I just didn't want swearing, I know I can't boss him around
women can dress how they want but they shouldnt dress half naked or like you said "like sluts" because there are always children around minors who should not have to look at that also if a women gets raped and is dressed like a prostitute then she is asking for it those kind of clothes were created to promote sexuality and cause urges in men. If a mentally unstable man saw a woman like that and lost control of himself whos fault is it? I personally think they share the fault
People are NEVER to blame for getting raped, no matter what their actions. True, there are ways to protect yourself from rape, but you cannot be blamed if you do get raped, because rape is a decision made ONLY by the rapist. There's no such thing as "asking" for rape. I agree with you that showy clothing is meant to promote sexuality, but it's still not the person's fault that the rapist acted on their urges. That's like a fat person saying it's the food's fault they ate it cause it was so irresistibly delicious. Also, mentally insane people are not held accountable the same way sane people are; that's why there's insanity pleas in court.