+195

It's ridiculous to claim Obama is taking away freedom of religion because he's for birth control and abortion and those things are against your religion. You still have the freedom to not get those things, he's not forcing you to break your religion, amirite?

92%Yeah You Are8%No Way
Frank_n_Furters avatar Politics
Share
12 30
The voters have decided that Frank_n_Furter is right! Vote on the post to say if you agree or disagree.
This user has deactivated their account.
@1844953

I don't think he's ever said he wants to do that...
He wants to make insurance cover those things, not religious institutions. He just wants religious institutions to offer insurance. That's still not forcing people to accept birth control or abortions.

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are +15Reply
@pikabeau I don't think he's ever said he wants to do that... He wants to make insurance cover those things, not religious...

By offering insurance for birth control and abortion, you are basically giving consent to do thee things. You are offering a means to which one can achieve getting these things. Without that insurance, which the institution is paying for, that person may not have been able to get the abortion or contraception.

Mj1996s avatar Mj1996 No Way -8Reply
@Mj1996 By offering insurance for birth control and abortion, you are basically giving consent to do thee things. You are...

But if they're part of that particular religion that's against abortion and contraceptives, why would they ever need it in the first place? Sure they have the means to do it, but that doesn't mean they're forced to. I can marry my first cousin even though incest is against my personal beliefs, but I don't feel like the fact that I can marry my cousin means I have to.

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are +14Reply
@Mj1996 Exactly, if they shouldn't need it, why should they have to cover it?

Because just because sex is against someone's religion doesn't mean they won't have sex and just cuz abortion/bc is against their religion doesn't mean they won't need it...?

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are 0Reply
This user has deactivated their account.
@1845000

Just cuz it's against someone's religion to take birth control doesn't mean other people shouldn't be able to get birth control that's covered by insurance, in no way is insurance providing birth control a breach on religious freedom. As a matter of fact, not providing birth control because it's against someone's religion is a breach of religious freedom and freedom from religion. Just because the option to do something sinful is there doesn't mean you're sinning. That's like saying that stores who sell caffeine or alcohol are making a breach on a Mormon's religious freedom. A Mormon may not be allowed to drink caffeine and alcohol, that doesn't mean alcohol and caffeine aren't allowed to exist. Their existence is not breaking your religion.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are +5Reply
This user has deactivated their account.
@1845072

No it's no. Mormon religion says you can't consume caffeine. Stocking it in a store is just fine. If your store makes you stock caffeine, as long as they don't make you drink it they're not breaching your religious freedom. And again, Obama isn't trying to force religious organizations to provide birth control for people.

Say your religion is against transplants (I don't think there is such a religion, but let's pretend) and your insurance covers transplants. Your heart is dying and you need a transplant, but you're not going to get one because it's against your religion. The fact that your insurance covers it even though you don't think anyone should be getting transplants because you think transplants are wrong isn't taking away your freedom to follow your religion.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are +5Reply
@Frank_n_Furter No it's no. Mormon religion says you can't consume caffeine. Stocking it in a store is just fine. If your store...

....your religion is against transplants .....
yep there is it is called "Christian Science"

Snickers avatar Snicker Yeah You Are -1Reply
This user has deactivated their account.
@1845086

To that thing about other religions ono smilie And again. Say getting transplants is against your religion, but your government wants to provide you with the option to get a transplant JUST IN CASE you change your mind. In no way is giving people options taking away freedom. Taking away freedom would be not giving them options, ie: no birth control.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are +4Reply
This user has deactivated their account.
@1845097

The facepalm is there because it's perfectly possibly to compare different religions. And no, it doesn't. If their religion says you must not consume birth control, providing birth control isn't against their religion in the same way if your religion says you can't consume alcohol that doesn't mean you can't stock it. Freedom is choice, freedom isn't no choice. Apply the heart transplant example to this. If insurance is required to proved transplants, why should someone of religion's insurance not have to cover transplants? It's their in case you change your mind, not to make you do it. It provides options, not "my way or the highway" And no, I'm not thinking from the individuals perspective. I think it's a stupid claim from a universal perspective. Rarely do I consider the individual's perspective more than the total outcome. If religious institutes are required to provide the things insurance covers, they're going to be required to cover all the things normal insurance covers. Making special rules for them is NOT ok.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are +2Reply
@1845000

The religious institutions aren't covering it... They're providing means for the people to pay for their own insurance. Employees of religious institutions still have to pay for their insurance, they just get it through their work.

pikabeaus avatar pikabeau Yeah You Are +3Reply
@1844953

This is precisely where the debate starts. The rub is that the religious institutions are using religion to prevent people from their rights (which by the way, are secular by nature), thereby going against the first amendment. Talk about "forcing", just look at the religious institutions themselves and the whole thing can easily be reversed. It's freedom of AND freedom from religion.

Anonymous +12Reply
@1844953

Obama isn't trying to make religious institutes pay for abortion inducing drugs and birth control.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are 0Reply

actually, since he's attempting to pay for abortions and birth control with the taxes of people who are firmly against them, it's pretty fair for them to think this

Anonymous +3Reply
@actually, since he's attempting to pay for abortions and birth control with the taxes of people who are firmly...

I don't drive, I don't think I should have to pay taxes since they go toward making the roads safe for drivers. I've also never been rescued by a fire fighter. Since I don't use the things taxes pay for, I shouldn't have to pay taxes because that's a breach against my freedom. Yeah, no.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are -1Reply
@Frank_n_Furter I don't drive, I don't think I should have to pay taxes since they go toward making the roads safe for drivers...

you totally took that the wrong way. giving your money to roads even though you don't drive is entirely different from your religion being firmly against driving. In a way, these people are contributing to something they believe is morally wrong, and it is no ones position to force them to do that.

Anonymous +3Reply
@you totally took that the wrong way. giving your money to roads even though you don't drive is entirely different...

I don't think people should be allowed to drive because it's against my religion. Should I have to pay taxes still? Yes.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are 0Reply

He is taking away the freedom of religion by declaring that all institutions have to include contraceptives in their health plans. By not including them, those institutions are not denying people the freedom to get those things, it just won't be paid for by the institution that does not support it.

Mj1996s avatar Mj1996 No Way +1Reply
@Mj1996 He is taking away the freedom of religion by declaring that all institutions have to include contraceptives in...

Your insurance has to pay for birth control if you WANT IT, he's not forcing people to take birth control. Say your religion is against transplants (I don't think there is such a religion, but let's pretend) and your insurance covers transplants. Your heart is dying and you need a transplant, but you're not going to get one because it's against your religion. The fact that your insurance covers it even though you don't think anyone should be getting transplants because you think transplants are wrong isn't taking away your freedom.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are +2Reply
@Frank_n_Furter Your insurance has to pay for birth control if you WANT IT, he's not forcing people to take birth control. Say your...

It's not taking away the individual freedom NOT to do something, but it is taking away the freedom of the institution NOT to do something. Why should it matter if it is an individual's or a whole institution's freedom not to do something. Keep in mind that the institution does not still have the freedom not to do it.

This move probably pushed a good number of voters off the fence. Some of them are gonna vote for him and some of them are gonna vote for not him.

Bold move, Obama, bold move.

Anonymous +1Reply

It's because even of you are pro life and against women getting abortions they are going to have them anyway. Would you rather a woman be cut up by some dirty street doctor or be in a safe, clean building? It's not even a first choice like yippee I'm getting an abortion today! It's a last choice. I just don't see how someone else doing something that's a sin is a violation of YOUR religion. And the whole abstinence thing. Kids are GOING to have sex. Why are Christians against abortions if they deny what would help stop them? :birth control! The thing about the insurance is whether your religious views are in the same line with the things insurance covers is irrelevant to that you have to pay it. The bible is all about temptation. It make you a stronger person. It's like social security. You may not like old people, you may hate them but you still have to help them.

Anonymous 0Reply

People actually think that?? no smilie

Please   login   or signup   to leave a comment.