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I love how pretty much no one commented on the whole reindeer part in the post.

this is very true, but some people need to understand that there is a difference between being homophobic and opposing gay marriage for religious reasons

Anonymous +13Reply
@this is very true, but some people need to understand that there is a difference between being homophobic and...

Homophobia, in a much more literal way, is an irrational fear of homosexuality. Obviously homophobia and opposition of homosexual marriage for religious reasons are different.
Opposition of homosexual marriage for religious reasons is still horrible.

Lens avatar Len Yeah You Are +4Reply
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@1894993

Some people don't believe in gay marriage for religious reasons, but they still understand that there is a separation of church and state and understand that it is not their right to stop gay marriage, so I don't think all believe marriage to belong to their own religion. Just because you don't support gay marriage doesn't mean you're against it. I'm not saying what you said was wrong, just that this is another stance people take.

_Jojo_s avatar _Jojo_ Yeah You Are +3Reply
@Len Homophobia, in a much more literal way, is an irrational fear of homosexuality. Obviously homophobia and opposition...

Exactly. Not everyone has the same religious beliefs, and some people who oppose gay marriage don't seem to able to grasp that idea.

The only time I have a problem with religion is when they try to impose their religion on my personal way of life (through marriage, through laws, through education, through healthcare, etc) any other time I live and let live.

Why do I keep coming to this site looking for original content?

I do not wish to argue for either side, I just simply want to say that I love this post and you.

LyssaBlaus avatar LyssaBlau Yeah You Are +3Reply

I love you.

KatieKaties avatar KatieKatie Yeah You Are +2Reply
@KatieKatie I love you.

Muffled 80s porn music

Lens avatar Len Yeah You Are +17Reply

"There's only one rule that I know of, babies—God damn it, you've got to be kind."

No belief should go unquestioned, including religion. I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance.

When a significant portion of the population believes the planet is a few thousand years old, I have a problem with religion. No one is going to learn through censorship.

I don't respect ignorance. I don't respect your religion. And I don't have to.

@Discord No belief should go unquestioned, including religion. I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance...

As a Hindu, I'm inclined to disagree with your comment. Now, I'm not trying to mix oil and water here, but not EVERY religion believes that Earth was created a few thousand years ago. Hindus live by a set of guidelines taught by our gods and goddesses through stories/fables. We believe in reincarnation and promote exploration of the mind and senses. Hinduism is very tolerant and curious about different beliefs and cultures. We find god in everything. Many times in India, I'll spot a tree with a simple garland around it and people will be pinning money to it. People cannot convert to Hinduism, you can only be a Hindu if you are born into a Hindu family. My main point is that not every religion believes in censoring others, the creation story, or is ignorant. It's actually kind of ignorant to believe that.

There are so many religions. Surely you find some of them ridiculous. How about "Heaven's Gate"? Back in 1997 a few dozen of them committed suicide believing it would allow them to hitch a ride on a spaceship that was trailing a comet. That's pretty goofy, right?

@PhilboydStudge There are so many religions. Surely you find some of them ridiculous. How about "Heaven's Gate"? Back in 1997 a...

About as goofy as talking snakes, burning plants that can talk, having sex with a woman while in the form of a swan, a serpent in the sea that wraps around the entire planet, etc.

ScottyDs avatar ScottyD Yeah You Are +4Reply

It's a nice thought but doesn't really work because shaming religions as silly can be a very effective way of moderating religion and thus reducing homophobia so the first part of your post is blocking the second part from being rectified.If you can shame people out of believing in the bible literally by ridiculing the silly parts,it opens them up to moderating their beliefs and disregarding Leviticus which I'm sure plenty of them wanted to do anyway because they're forced into being homophobes out of fear of reprisal from their god for not being.Intolerance of intolerance is a justified form of intolerance.

@RobertSine It's a nice thought but doesn't really work because shaming religions as silly can be a very effective way of...

Shaming a religion would be like shaming someone for living a particular lifestyle, so by that same line of thinking we should shame people who are promiscuous to deter them from that behaviour or people who consume substances, or people who over indulge in all aspects in life.

@Naggs Shaming a religion would be like shaming someone for living a particular lifestyle, so by that same line of...

I agree that people shouldn't be shamed for being promiscuous even though they often are (use of the word slut etc) but it's a false analogy because no one is being hurt as long as they are sensible and use protection.

Substance abuse is obviously harmful though so that's more directly applicable.I don't see the problem with shaming that either though.I have no idea if there's any noticeable success rate with shaming it but if there is,why not do it?

@RobertSine I agree that people shouldn't be shamed for being promiscuous even though they often are (use of the word slut etc)...

So we should also shame people who choose to eat vegan, or vegetarian?
My point is that we shouldn't look to shame people but instead find the positive and continue to build on the positive

@Naggs So we should also shame people who choose to eat vegan, or vegetarian? My point is that we shouldn't look to shame...

That's also a false analogy for the same reason.Being vegetarian/vegan isn't harming anyone.In fact,the reason for it is more often than not an attempt to minimise harm.

I would never condone any vitriole directed directly towards moderate Christians who are doing no harm and it's unfortunate when they are unintentionally caught in the crossfire of any bible-bashing but there are priorities to be made.I repeat what I said.Intolerance of intolerance is justified intolerance.

Not sure whether by the last bit of your post you mean that we should attempt to turn things around to a nice happy place or if you mean we should simply focus on the positives of religion and ignore the bad things.If its the former then shaming fundamentalism with the intention of moderating it is doing just that,no? If its the latter then that's just irresponsible.'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing' and all that.

I don't tell people that their religion is stupid, but I do say that about religion in general. The way I see it, believing in any specific faith is foolish because there are thousands to choose from and none of them is more credible than any other. To believe for some reason that you've found the one out of ten thousand that is correct is just ignorant. There is no reason to believe that Christianity is any more likely to be true than, say, Taoism. Or even scientology. At least scientology is original. The story of Jesus Christ has been told in a dozen variations by different civilizations throughout time; why is the current variation any better than the previous ones?
None of this is meant maliciously, I'm just stating my opinion on religion in hopes of sparking a lively debate.

Okay, homophobia, like any other phobia, isn't really something a person can help. Of course, many people people don't like homosexuality and are not homophobic. At the same time, though, someone afraid of spiders doesn't have to smash every one they see.

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@1894962

Yes but it's often misused. A racist or misogynistic person, much like a pedophile, can suppress their actions and words. I don't like spiders, but that doesn't mean that I have a defined, irrational fear or hatred of them.

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@1894966

That's the difference between simply not liking someone or something, like racism or misogyny (I know it's not as simple as not liking them, but I think you get the pint), while phobias are psychological disorders. Again, my point was that homophobia is not parallel with misogyny and racism because of the psychological aspect. Perhaps "anti-gay people" would be more appropriate in this post.

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@1894972

And I proceded to say that "homophobia" is often misused when a more correct term would be "anti-gay." Yes, languages evolve with usage, but I still think that my point is entirely valid.

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@1894975

Fair point. I just think that many people don't know the difference between the uses of the word, and, for that matter, most words.

@Wunderscore Fair point. I just think that many people don't know the difference between the uses of the word, and, for that...

At this point in society, "homophobia" is more of a colloquialism than a literal term. I'm sure there are a couple cases of actual, medical homophobia, but those are a lot less plentiful than people who are anti-gay. And sure, we could use "anti-gay" to describe those people, but "homophobia" is, in my opinion, a much more appropriate term, because those people's hatred usually stems from fear.
Languages evolve, and this is just one of the examples of that evolution.
Also, chances are that people /do/ know the differences between different uses of the same word...that was an incredibly condescending statement.

NitaCallahans avatar NitaCallahan Yeah You Are 0Reply
@NitaCallahan At this point in society, "homophobia" is more of a colloquialism than a literal term. I'm sure there are a couple...

Okay, I agree with you. I still do think that the difference between fear and a diagnosed phobia is more pronounced than people may realize, but I must acknowledge the change in usage of the word.
As for your second point, I think I already addressed this.
My bad. I don't find it to be condescending at all. Had I said "all" or "most" people, I understand that people could find that offensive. I don't, however, think that "many" is enough for someone to feel offended, because I have absolutely no statistics backing me up. I felt that, due to sheer population and therefore odds, there must be "many" people who do not apply or consider more outdated or original uses of words. For example, describing something as "gay" now means homosexual, and it's my guess that if you said someone seemed gay, with no other context, many people would think "homosexual" and few would think "happy."

I think there is nothing wrong with being homophobic or racist as long as you don't show it.

@AppAwesome I think there is nothing wrong with being homophobic or racist as long as you don't show it.

It's impossible not to manifest beliefs. They influence one's actions that may have been made unconsciously.
Ex. A manager doesn't promote a black because he is racist, but it blames it on the fact that he's a bad worker.

I still think being an Atheist is still sorta ignorant.
Is it not better to claim that you just don't know and never will know until it actually happens

@Gavin I still think being an Atheist is still sorta ignorant. Is it not better to claim that you just don't know and...

Don't Christians claim to know that their God is the ONLY God.. there are hundreds of religions in the world yet they are ignorant and arrogant enough to think theirs is the only true path to salvation? I feel the same about any religion that suggests their religion is the "only" true path to peace. That's ignorance at its best.

@Gavin I still think being an Atheist is still sorta ignorant. Is it not better to claim that you just don't know and...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

I do believe that agnosticism is the most "sensible" position but I personally believe that there is no God, therefore I call myself an atheist.

@Sarcasm_on_ice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism I do believe that agnosticism is the most "sensible" position but I...

There is no "most sensible position". There are positions that are more ignorant, less ignorant, but there's no best answer, only whatever works for people best without negatively impacting the lives of others

@Watchful_questioneer There is no "most sensible position". There are positions that are more ignorant, less ignorant, but there's no...

Most of the people I know, theists or not, are agnostic. I just don't see how one could possibly prove/KNOW the existence of God 100% and honestly claiming that you're an exception and that you understand exactly how deities work doesn't strike me as sensible. If someone has a different opinion and doesn't infringe on others then I'm hardly gonna fight them on it though.

@Sarcasm_on_ice Most of the people I know, theists or not, are agnostic. I just don't see how one could possibly prove/KNOW the...

Not to say that YOU are claiming these things, or even that your comment is wrong, because I agree with it. I just feel that it makes the most sense for everyone to be some degree of agnostic.

@Sarcasm_on_ice Not to say that YOU are claiming these things, or even that your comment is wrong, because I agree with it. I just...

I guess, but the thing about faith that probably gives them complete confidence is that (and I can only speculate, since I'm agnostic myself) they've been taught from an age so early they'll accept it as fact, something extraordinary happened to them that seems too unlikely for coincidence, or they convince themselves of a God's existence to fill a need or desire in their lives for a sense of justice that it may otherwise lack.

There are probably more and better reasons, but those are all I got off the top of my head. Everyone's position will seem the most sensible to themselves, so it's kind of like deciding the best song in the world. While some can be typically thought of as worse, some can spread a bad message, others can be really good. However, it's something we have no standard to base it off of, so everybody has a different perspective on the matter.

@Watchful_questioneer I guess, but the thing about faith that probably gives them complete confidence is that (and I can only speculate...

You make good points. I am very open to the beliefs of others, I guess I just have a bit of bias as a human being.

@Sarcasm_on_ice You make good points. I am very open to the beliefs of others, I guess I just have a bit of bias as a human being.

We all do. It's impossible to be a human being without bias. It's too perfect a concept to be nurtured into any organism by imperfect organisms

@Gavin I still think being an Atheist is still sorta ignorant. Is it not better to claim that you just don't know and...

Atheists don't necessarily take that standpoint. I, for the sake of my sanity and not on an intellectual level, believe in reincarnation. There are far better examples than me though, plenty of people who actually believe in some form of an afterlife and are still atheists.
It's not atheism that you're really against here is what I'm trying to say.

Lens avatar Len Yeah You Are -2Reply
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