+120

The world is too focused on forcing equality to not seem racist/sexist. We cannot continue to give special treatment to someone just because of their background, and instead give people exactly what they deserve as individually, not a gender/race, amirite?

91%Yeah You Are9%No Way
Watchful_questioneers avatar Politics
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I really really dislike how companies will hire someone because they are required by law to have a certain percentage of every minority. And that when you fill out information for a scholar ship, they ask you things like if you're black, Latino, Eskimoan, etc. and that there are scholarships specifically for minorities. And this is slightly unrelated, sports scholarships are stupid too. They give them to really good athletes because they want them at their school to win for them, and school is supposed to be about academics. Everything should be fair- you should get into a good school because you did well in school, you should get a job because you're more qualified than the other people who applied.

I hate girls that are like "I can hold open the door myself" to boys. It's just a nice thing to do for anyone. I can understand wanting to pay for dates sometimes though. A guy wouldn't pay for everything him and his guy friend did, so it's not really the same as holding the door open. I personally don't mind though, I'm broke anyway.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are +14Reply
@Frank_n_Furter I really really dislike how companies will hire someone because they are required by law to have a certain...

Check this out though, a lot of the scholarships and affirmative action hires, are to attempt to put everyone on a level playing field. There's no denying that the american system is a perpetuity of sorts, as in the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor due to funding, education and those type of things. The fact that minorities are starting from behind is the reason why those things happen. As for when on standardized tests and scholarships and things of that nature race is asked, as well as gender, that's for data collection purposes mostly. As for Athletic scholarships, school isn't solely about academics, it's about growth, academically, socially, and athletically and so just as some are gifted with incredible smarts, others are gifted with superior physical abilities. With I assume that you're a white guy who's not too good enough in sports to get a scholarship but smart enough to get in to college on academics, i might be wrong but that's the way you came off. Any scholarships you get for academics is the exact same as a scholarship for athletics. To be fair removing one would have to result in removing the other

@MrMclovin Check this out though, a lot of the scholarships and affirmative action hires, are to attempt to put everyone on a...

I don't think racially based scholarships level the playing field. They actually make it in favor of minorities.

And I think that while athletic scholarships are reasonable, they certainly aren't as important as academic, because I think college is more about academics than all those things you said athletic scholarships represent. They should still be allowed, though, they just aren't as important from a college's perspective

I think I agree with affirmative action because its trying to get people who were previously disadvantaged to get a chance to get ahead. I'm gonna use black people to explain what I mean:
1. Like a hundred and fifty years ago they were slaves and where treated like barbaric heathen that are only good for work
2. Then they are freed however they are still segregated and the famous "separate but equal" come about and they were still disadvantaged and treated like second class(that was like 50 years ago)
3. Currently they accommodate for a small minority in America however they are overlyrepresented in jail, minimum wage jobs, drop outs, living in ghettos...etc. so by giving them an advantage over their previously privileged white counterparts. I think by giving them this one advantage it allows them to "catch-up" and have higher ranks in society.

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@1883502

I totally get your point and that's unfair on account of you being asian that you are getting discriminated against.

I guess I'm looking at this much differently than everyone, let me try and explain myself better:
I was watching a video of a guy in ireland who comes from a poor family and they've never been to college (education is free in ireland). He said if he didn't have free school that he would have never been able to become successful later in life.

I'm just trying to think of it as a way out for them I guess.

@Naggs I totally get your point and that's unfair on account of you being asian that you are getting discriminated...

Financial status can play a factor in whether they deserve a scholarship, but not in whether they meet the standard for the school in general, nor should their race be a factor in scholarship or acceptance

@Watchful_questioneer Financial status can play a factor in whether they deserve a scholarship, but not in whether they meet the standard...

yeah, maybe I'm thinking in terms of race because whether we'd like to believe it or not it does impact your life and I guess I'm looking at affirmative action as a means of giving an advantaged to the disadvantaged race.

@Naggs yeah, maybe I'm thinking in terms of race because whether we'd like to believe it or not it does impact your life...

That's the thing. You can't just call an entire race as "disadvantaged". Even it it is more disadvantaged on average, it's presumptuous to give advantages even to the members of said race who do not need it. We should give financial assistance (not lower standards for acceptance) to those who need it as individuals, and if that means a certain race will receive more help, then so be it.

The fact that certain races would be getting more help should be a statistic, not a basis for generalizing and positive discrimination

And there should absolutely not be certain racial population percentages that have to be met by any institution. Institutions should look ONLY at who is best qualified to work/learn there, and race should not be, by any means, a factor

@Naggs Yeah, I understand what you mean. We can just agree to disagree on this one, haha.

Can we agree that benefits should be given to people who are in poor financial situations, assuming they have the qualifications to be accepted into the institution but not the money?

@Naggs oh for sure

I didn't doubt it for a second, I just wanted to make sure. Am i correct, then, to say that the points we disagree on are these:
A. members of a certain formerly oppressed race should have a lower standard for acceptance into institutions
B. members of a certain race should receive monetary assistance to make their way through institutions, regardless of whether they need it

@Watchful_questioneer I didn't doubt it for a second, I just wanted to make sure. Am i correct, then, to say that the points we disagree...

I don't think certain races should recieve monetary assistance regardless of whether they need it, however I do believe that there should be more opportunities if they need it

@Naggs I don't think certain races should recieve monetary assistance regardless of whether they need it, however I do...

So then we agree that B is wrong?
Do you think that equally poor white and black people should receive equal monetary assistance?
Also, do you agree with A?

@Watchful_questioneer So then we agree that B is wrong? Do you think that equally poor white and black people should receive equal...

I think giving money to people who don't need it is stupid, for us in Canada, native Americans can go to school for free and I'm alright with that, so maybe not lower standards but encourage them perhaps with money?

@Naggs I think giving money to people who don't need it is stupid, for us in Canada, native Americans can go to school for...

so you disagree with both A and B?
And do you think that equally poor white and black people should receive equal monetary assistance?

@Naggs I totally get your point and that's unfair on account of you being asian that you are getting discriminated...

But anyone can get a good scholarship if they work hard, no race needs it to be easier for them- that's almost offensive. Someone from a single parent family with 3 children that makes 25,000 a year shouldn't be given less of chance than someone else from a single parent family with 3 children that makes 25,000 a year. No race should be ahead or behind, race should have nothing to do with it.

Frank_n_Furters avatar Frank_n_Furter Yeah You Are -2Reply
@Naggs I think I agree with affirmative action because its trying to get people who were previously disadvantaged to get a...

If black people are overly-represented in jail, white people must be underrepresented. Maybe we should make it easier for white people to be jailed.

... Seriously, how do you not understand the stupidity of affirmative action?

YeahIAms avatar YeahIAm Yeah You Are +4Reply
@YeahIAm If black people are overly-represented in jail, white people must be underrepresented. Maybe we should make it...

Please read this article I think it kind of explains it: http://www.americanprogress.org...united-states/

I guess because I look at the world differently then you do so I don't neccesarily a bad thing.

@Naggs Please read this article I think it kind of explains it:...

The majority of those statistics are completely unrelated to racism. I mean come on, if "people of color make up about 30 percent of the United States’ population [and] account for 60 percent of those imprisoned" it cannot be blamed on cops racial profiling. Minorities simply commit more crimes than white people, it's statistics.

And the article supports treating all people as equals and not paying attention to their color, which is exactly what affirmative action goes against by considering their skin color.

YeahIAms avatar YeahIAm Yeah You Are +3Reply
@YeahIAm The majority of those statistics are completely unrelated to racism. I mean come on, if "people of color make up...

"black offenders receive sentences that are 10 percent longer than white offenders for the same crimes."
"African Americans comprise 14 percent of regular drug users but are 37 percent of those arrested for drug offenses"
"report by the Department of Justice found that blacks and Hispanics were approximately three times more likely to be searched during a traffic stop than white motorists. African Americans were twice as likely to be arrested and almost four times as likely to experience the use of force during encounters with the police."

These are all examples of racism, I asked you to read the article not skim it and get the gist. This article is taking about racial disparities inherent in the american justic system.

@Naggs "black offenders receive sentences that are 10 percent longer than white offenders for the same crimes." "African...

All of those statistics are highly biased and I suspect some just completely fake. For example, the first one: Do you think they went through every single court case against a black person and asked themselves, who was involved? Premeditated? Evidence against and for them? Witnesses? Then went and found a white person and found a case exactly like it? Not likely. Let me continue onto the second statistic. If they knew exactly how many people of what race do drugs (also not accounting for the difference between the occasional weed smoker vs. heroin addict) then why aren't they all aloud to just walk around on the street?

@drhannah All of those statistics are highly biased and I suspect some just completely fake. For example, the first one: Do...

You can't call a statistic biased. If it's biased, then it's not a statistic, and if it's a statistic, then it has no bias because it'd be pure fact

@Naggs "black offenders receive sentences that are 10 percent longer than white offenders for the same crimes." "African...

I did read it. I'm saying those might account for a small percentage of the difference between imprisoned blacks and whites, but certainly not the whole difference.

YeahIAms avatar YeahIAm Yeah You Are 0Reply
@Naggs do you mind rephrasing what you are trying to say, because it's a little unclear to me!

I'm saying that those statistics, if true, couldn't possibly account for the entire disparity between the number of minorities in jail compared to the number of whites in jail.

YeahIAms avatar YeahIAm Yeah You Are +1Reply
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@1883484

"You aren't truly 'black' if you aren't a liberal democrat dependent on government handouts."

I think I agree with the general gist of what you're saying, but my God that's a horrible quote.

YeahIAms avatar YeahIAm Yeah You Are +3Reply
@1883484

First off, I was not aware someone could make a more racist comment if they tried.
Second off, I mean overrepresented I was on my phone which means higher then average, which is exactly what it is and what I meant to say.
Third off, if we look at what causes incarcerations often it is things like poverty, abuse and the like that leads someone to a bad life. I am not saying they can use that as a blanket of excuse however we can't be blind.
Now we have to ask ourselves, where does this poverty stem from? the answer to that question is usually colonization, slavery, or just plain oppression.
Studies have shown time and time again that people don't move up on the scale of poverty so how do you intend on fixing poverty? Affirmative action is simply a way to try and fix it. By giving the more disadvantaged minority a chance it allows them to break that cycle of poverty and become productive members of society.

I understand it seems unfair that people get money because they are a certain race, I certainly felt my fair-share of annoyance when applying for scholarships, however it is also unfair to enslave people and have them pay the price pertually.

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@1883663

long time ago? it was only 150 years ago. Long time ago is the egyptians enslaving the jews.

Lets put this on a time line:

  • the earth was created like 4.5 billion years ago
  • Ancient civilization happened like 5 thousand years ago
  • The freeing of the black slaves in America happened 150 years ago.
  • Equality between the races (specifically whites and blacks) happened 40-50 years ago.
  • Social equality happened like 20-30 years ago.

Even when laws were no longer discriminatory the people still were, so unfortunately black people got the short end of the stick.
So when exactly do you think people are going to suddenly rise up and become equal in all aspects of life?
Think of it this way, it took Europe 800 years (400BCE - 1200BC) to not throw their shit on the streets and to instead use plumbing.
And racism is still extremely relevant if you think you can post a comment like you just did and not think it is racist, but fact. Racism, Sexism, Homophobia and the like will continue to exist as long as people do, because there will always be someone to perpetuate this ideas.

I was simply trying to use black people as an example because people know that one the most.

@Naggs long time ago? it was only 150 years ago. Long time ago is the egyptians enslaving the jews. Lets put this on a...

"Long time ago" was relative to modern day, not the creation of the Earth

You could then argue that the Earth itself is fairly recent since it's been so long since the big bang

@Naggs First off, I was not aware someone could make a more racist comment if they tried. Second off, I mean...

Your exactly right when you said we must ask ourselves where does poverty stem from? And I don't believe anyone has that answer. To place all the blame on the history of enslavement is a long shot, though. There are a million and one factors that make poverty happen.

@1883484

Hold the hell up, man that's some bonified bullshit you're speaking, 70% jeez. I bet you're a white guy in the upper middle class huh

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