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The very fact that there is debate, argument, or different views or opinions about a topic, is proof that nobody has the 100% conclusive factual right answer. Otherwise, all other views would not matter or count. Amirite?

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People used to have to argue that the world is round. That doesn't mean no one knew that the earth is round. We obviously know who had the right answer to that one.

@pikabeau People used to have to argue that the world is round. That doesn't mean no one knew that the earth is round. We...

And that was my point - right answers will at some point rise to the top as the TRUTH. Nobody can refute things that are 100% conclusive. Everything else is still being debated - many of these issues for years and years.

@freespeechfreelancer And that was my point - right answers will at some point rise to the top as the TRUTH. Nobody can refute things...

You said that no one has the 100% conclusive, factual, right answer. If 600 years ago someone said the world is round then they would have the right answer. Just because it's disputed doesn't mean no one has the right answer.

@pikabeau You said that no one has the 100% conclusive, factual, right answer. If 600 years ago someone said the world is...

I am not disputing the world's roundness. I don't know why you are bringing that up. When it was shown that it actually IS round, the debate ended and people accepted it as factual truth. My post has to do with all issues that are STILL being debated and unresolved - surely you can see that. There can NOT be varying points of view on things proven as undisputable. So all current debatable issues that have not been proven beyond any doubt, are still being kicked around. That is all I am saying.

@freespeechfreelancer I am not disputing the world's roundness. I don't know why you are bringing that up. When it was shown that it...

You said "the very fact that there is debate... is proof that nobody has the 100% conclusive factual right answer." I'm saying 400 years ago the world's roundness was debated. The very fact that it was debated does NOT mean no one knew the truth. The people who thought the world was round knew the "100% conclusive factual right answer."

Sometimes a person's argument does not count. Some people can come up with the craziest things that they honestly believe and try to prove, but they're still wrong. You could tell me that there is an invisible unicorn on my shoulder and then we could argue about it, but that would not mean that I do not have the 100% conclusive factual answer to whether or not there is an invisible unicorn on my shoulder.

Your post pretty much says "If something can be debated then no one knows the right answer. All opinions matter." That is simply not true. Someone has to debate the right answer in order for everyone else to realize that they are right. Not all opinions are equal.

@pikabeau You said "the very fact that there is debate... is proof that nobody has the 100% conclusive factual right answer."...

They didn't KNOW anything at the time....they were guessing and thinking it. And your unicorn example does not match the round world debate. We KNOW for certain there are NO unicorns. The people in the early world did not KNOW the world was round. It was believed to be flat until proven and demonstrated otherwise. For your unicorn example to apply, someone would have to still believe and hold to there being a flat world.
We can and do debate many issues that actually do not have a right or wrong answer. Which political party is the best or better of the two? Are women smarter than men? Which automobile is the best brand? And so on. These are debated and discussed all the time - with NO 100% factual answer. They are more preference than they are absolutes. But when it comes to a tree being a tree, we can not debate that. We can not debate about a dog being a dog. We can not debate if 1 + 1 = 2. These things have been clearly determined to be 100% factual absolute truths. Once something has been declared an undisputable absolute factual truth, THEN the second part of my post applies. No other view or opinion matters or counts beyond that. The law of gravity is the law of gravity and it is not changing. I can debate it all I wish - but it is set in stone. So the point of my post is that as long as things ARE being debated, and there is not a 100% consensus about those issues or views, no one can claim their view or opinion is MORE right than the next person's. It really is that simple.

@freespeechfreelancer They didn't KNOW anything at the time....they were guessing and thinking it. And your unicorn example does not...

It is not that simple. There being no proof does not mean no one knows the truth. Back to the earth being round: people KNEW the world was round. They had no proof, but they were still right. In all those debates you mentioned, there is not one answer. Each answer to those questions would have to rely on absolutes, but there will always be a woman who is more dumb than a man, both political parties will always have its bad sides, and all car makers will produce a dud every now and then. There is no right answer; not because it's still being debated, but because there are too many factors involved for there to be one absolute. In other countries people still debate things that we have already figured out. Should women own property? Is it okay to allow children to work 14 hour work days? We know the right answer even thought these things are still debated worldwide.

@pikabeau It is not that simple. There being no proof does not mean no one knows the truth. Back to the earth being round:...

So you are telling me that people KNOW things before they are ever discovered, invented, or proven? Why do we call something a "discovery" then when it is learned and known for the first time? Based on your example, mankind is ultimately all knowing then and already has the answer to all things. That of course is absurd. We have a rover running around on Mars, but can't figure out how to cure the common cold. Why is that if we know there is a cure already? Who is running around claiming they KNOW there is a cure to dreadful diseases even though such does not exist?

@pikabeau You said that no one has the 100% conclusive, factual, right answer. If 600 years ago someone said the world is...

I am not disputing the world's roundness. I don't know why you are bringing that up. When it was shown that it actually IS round, the debate ended and people accepted it as factual truth. My post has to do with all issues that are STILL being debated and unresolved - surely you can see that. There can NOT be varying points of view on things proven as undisputable. So all current debatable issues that have not been proven beyond any doubt, are still being kicked around. That is all I am saying.

I would follow that statement with: everyone knows and agrees upon the fact that a car is a car. No argument. A dog is a dog. A tree is a tree and so on. Things being debated are simply ideas, concepts, or theorems that have not reached a 100% consensus by any majority of people. If they had, the debate and questioning would be OVER!

"The fact that is an especially debilitating expression. It should be revised out of every sentence in which it occurs" -Elements of Style. I don't really care, it's just something my English teacher says everyday so I find it funny when I can use it on others haha.

Anonymous 0Reply
@"The fact that is an especially debilitating expression. It should be revised out of every sentence in which it...

I don't see how it can be revised out of every sentence if, in FACT, you are pointing to a factual reference (which I did in my post). Many issues are still being debated and unresolved, so I prefaced my sentence with: The fact that.............. I would be curious as to why that teacher believes this expression to be "debilitating." From my point of view, it actually strengthened my statement to start it that way - not weakened or lessened.

@freespeechfreelancer I don't see how it can be revised out of every sentence if, in FACT, you are pointing to a factual reference (which...

I don't understand it either, he just swears by that gramma book like it's the bible. He says that the phrase is "verbose." I still use the phrase, just not in his class!

Anonymous 0Reply
@I don't understand it either, he just swears by that gramma book like it's the bible. He says that the phrase is...

Challenge him by saying debilitating is in fact, debilitating or that verbose is in fact, verbose! That would be good for several laughs. LOL

I think you worded it a little ambiguously. I think it's more like "any topic that there was serious debate on, by that sole fact, shows that there (at least at the time) was not conclusive evidence to draw a conclusion one could have complete faith in".

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