We should be allowed to walk about completely topless, too.

by Anonymous 10 years ago

We are allowed to walk around topless. It's only completely illegal in three states. http://gotopless.org/topless-laws

by Anonymous 10 years ago

I live in one of the states with ambiguous laws, and I have no idea what that would even mean... "You're only allowed to walk around topless in the summer!" XP It probably means designated areas and such. And I feel obligated to point out there are women living outside the US.

by Anonymous 10 years ago

I just had this discussion with a friend a few days ago. I think both sides need to manage their expectations. Boys shouldn't be making girls uncomfortable with their attention, but girls are out of their goddamn minds if they expect to be able to wear revealing clothing without getting boys' attention. Middle school to high school is traditionally when human beings would begin mating and having children, so of course the drive to look for a mate will be very powerful. The body has been specifically developed by evolution to attract the sexual attention of the opposite gender. To the subconscious mind, the display of these body parts is almost literally a sign saying, "Come try having sex with me". If that whole process didn't work, we probably wouldn't be here. "Sexualization" of body parts is far more normal than the idea of school or clothing. Human beings need a better understanding of how their bodies work. Sensory input invokes //INVOLUNTARY// responses in the brain, and these responses include complete changes in behavior. Sexually exciting a person is not only out of their control, but is legitimately distressing for that person if that excitement is not satisfied. Of course, nobody is obligated to have sex with someone just because they are aroused, but I think we need to take that kind of thing into consideration. You wouldn't walk into a homeless shelter full of starving people, waft around the smell of some delicious food, and then get offended when they pay attention to you, would you? It's the same thing as walking into a building full hormonal boys, exposing body parts //meant to invoke a sexual response//, and then expecting them not to do anything. It's also worth noting that men are much more responsive to visual stimuli than women, and that both sexes' inhibitions are lowered when they are sexually aroused. Self control is actually limited by arousal. In short, I think boys need to be taught more //self-control//. Being taught not to be attracted to attractive body parts is completely ludicrous. While the shaming is wrong, I think girls still need to acknowledge that they are causing actual physiological changes in the boys without the boys' consent. I'd never try to tell anyone what they could or could not wear, but take it from me; being sexually aroused without fulfillment of that arousal is very stressful and frustrating.

by Anonymous 10 years ago

This is exactly WHY I will not go to strip clubs. What is the point of paying to look, getting a nice big stiffy, and then having to walk out empty handed and frustrated? It is a big joke - and very expensive. Most women do know and are fully aware of what you are talking about in your comments. Many of them dress the way they do intentionally to tease and annoy. When I was still in high school (about 35 years ago) even we knew what was going on back then. I have had girls tell me flat out they love wearing their skin tight jeans and revealing blouses so guys WILL look at them. And as you pointed out, men are definitely stimulated by the visual. This is why lingerie, porn, and the strip clubs are such big hits. Women may get their kicks by looking at men's asses or abs, but it doesn't mean they will have a sexual need to follow through. A guy getting turned on by the visual starts the entire sexual process and he will want to go all the way if her appearance suggests the possibility. And women also need to fully understand that because a man knows HOW a man thinks, this is why your man gets so damn jealous when you go out in public looking like a night street walker. He knows you are still advertising what you got even though you claim to be his girl. You can say it should not be this way all you wish - but it is a fact of life and the way a man is made up.

by Anonymous 10 years ago

And what about cultures where people walk around near naked? They aren't constantly aroused.

by Anonymous 10 years ago

Are you so sure about that? I have heard of cultures like that in which they have sex pretty freely and commonly. And perhaps it is society's fault for teaching "modesty", which is an odd concept in and of itself. There's no reason for us to feel exposed when we are naked aside from society teaching us that we should feel exposed. If we didn't spend so much time teaching children that bodies are naughty and should be hidden, they wouldn't completely lose their shit when an attractive member of the opposite sex exposes a bit of theirs. It's been proven time and time again that putting a taboo on things makes rebellious teenagers seek it with much more vigor than things that are accepted as okay. Society in general needs to sort its shit out. I really can't stand how everyone's solution to problems caused by "teaching" people things is to "teach" more things. Rather than force out views on subsequent generations, we need to arm them with as much knowledge as possible and give them the skills to create their own solution. Informed decisions are the best decisions.

by Anonymous 10 years ago

Anon was me, I accidentally clicked the button and my computer is so slow that it wasn't even worth trying to undo it. Yes, the Yanomami for example. People in training to become shamans aren't allowed to have sex because the hekuras are said to believe sex is filthy. And if a man find out his woman is having sex with someone else, she could die. But they stay near naked. They're sexuality isn't repressed, kids know about sex, but they aren't all having sex with each other. Even in cultures that don't wear much clothes //and// have sex pretty freely, that doesn't mean they are having sex freely because they are constantly aroused by everyone's naked body. Like you said, put a taboo on it and BOOM. You've created a problem. It's the forbidden fruit that every body wants to eat. All the body parts you're taught to cover up become sexual.

by Anonymous 10 years ago

Everyone else is allowed to have sex, though, even the children. It could be said that female sexuality is repressed in that culture because women are beaten to death if they are found having sex with someone who isn't their "husband" or with another woman, while men are free to have sex with pretty much anyone. And the fact that women //still// have sex with other men and women in spite of the threat of death shows that something is going on. Women are also forbidden from showing their genitals after their first period. Naturalist colonies that wear no clothing at all often have to redirect their arousal into energies for other activities. This shows that they //are// aroused often. Even if they aren't //constantly// aroused, can't it be said they are aroused more often than people in clothed societies? Even if //that's// not true, can't it be said that being able to release that sexual energy is the key? I'd argue that Western teenagers are more sensitized to the sight of a woman's body //and// can't release that sexual tension on command like places that don't wear clothing. Humans were made to have sex as teenagers, not be confined to rooms with attractive members of the opposite sex where they do everything except have sex. I don't agree with boys making girls uncomfortable and shaming girls, but I still submit that the revealing clothing produces a tangible and legitimate distraction in the boys.

by Anonymous 10 years ago

If the women are repressed sexually and can't show their genitals, do the two correlate? I think probably so. And if they do, does that say that those body parts are more sexualized, kind of like what goes on in Western culture? Their breasts are allowed to be exposed, and I don't think they see breasts as something over sexualized like we do. In naturalist colonies, if they are aroused constantly, more so than clothed societies, wouldn't that take away from the whole thing we were both saying about the forbidden fruit/taboo making people want it more sort of thing? The question is, do all naturalist colonies have sex freely? For the record, I'm not trying to prove a point here, I'm trying to figure out what the hell is up with everyone.

by Anonymous 10 years ago

I don't know. That culture isolates women when they get their first period. The women are forced to be alone and are not allowed to talk to anyone except immediate family, and even then they must whisper. They also must be fed with a stick because they are not allowed to touch the food. Apparently, this is because they view menstruation as unclean. Honestly, I wouldn't try to analyze anything they do as rational. I know we're not supposed to look down on cultures and such, but come on. That's not simply "different", that's primitive and silly. As for the taboo subject, I think it may only affect reactions to the feelings brought on by body parts, rather than the feelings themselves. If people in naturalist colonies //do// still get excited when they look at each other, they're certainly not losing their shit like a Western student is. I think we can't tell boys NOT to be attracted to women's body parts, but we should acclimate them before they get exposed to it in an uncontrolled setting. Boys are interested in this type of thing pretty early; my friends and I were discussing and looking at porn as early as first grade. Is that fucked up? Almost definitely. It still happens, though, so we've got to figure out how to deal with that as well. I'm almost certain the taboo in regards to young men is the problem, but I can't be sure. We need studies to go into this before we start talking about possible solutions. Another problem is people stating their solutions as fact without considering all the evidence and factors.

by Anonymous 10 years ago