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Certain people don't want to give religion any credit when the good things associated with religion come to mind. These same people want to give religion pretty much all the credit when it comes to the bad things, though. This is certainly an unfair imbalance. Amirite?

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certain people refers to religious and irreligious people

people favor their own beliefs
but with other religions
will lay all the "bad credit" and not the "good" credit

and irreligious people do the same but with pretty much all the religions

instead they favor lack of religion

fuzalas avatar fuzala Yeah You Are +1Reply
@fuzala certain people refers to religious and irreligious people people favor their own beliefs but with other...

I bet Mr. Z would say "I am not certain of anything" in reference to my last sentence "This is certainly an unfair imbalance" maniac smilie

fuzalas avatar fuzala Yeah You Are 0Reply
@fuzala I bet Mr. Z would say "I am not certain of anything" in reference to my last sentence "This is certainly an unfair...

He among you is the wisest who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is really worth nothing at all. (Apology 23b, tr. Church, rev. Cumming) - That the wisest of you men is he who like Socrates has learned that with respect to wisdom, he is truly worthless. (tr. Tredennick) - He, O men, is the wisest who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing. (tr. Jowett)

Probably just another example of confirmation bias.

PhilboydStudges avatar PhilboydStudge Yeah You Are +1Reply

This is so true

samrecans avatar samrecan Yeah You Are +1Reply

When I see the positive outcomes of religion (which do not outweigh the liabilities by any means) I also observe that those same positive outcomes can be easily obtained in a secular way.

There isn't some secret form of happiness and good that comes from religion and religion only.

@speckleasme When I see the positive outcomes of religion (which do not outweigh the liabilities by any means) I also observe...

and you're doing what my post says

there isn't some kind of negative that comes from religion and religion only

"which do not outweigh the liabilities in any way"
disagree

fuzalas avatar fuzala Yeah You Are 0Reply
@fuzala and you're doing what my post says there isn't some kind of negative that comes from religion and religion only...

It depends on how specific you get on this topic. I could say that religious wars are caused by religion and religion only, and you would respond by saying that there have been plenty of other wars for non-religious reasons.

About your last statement there, what are the benefits of religion?

@speckleasme It depends on how specific you get on this topic. I could say that religious wars are caused by religion and...

most wars are secular
so still not religion and religion only
just like you said I'd say

and even in "religious wars"
there was the reason for wanting land, resources, etc.
so still not religion and religion only

the benefits vary from person to person
google it

I don't want to share my own
for reasons I don't know how to word

the duties have had physical, mental, emotional, etc. benefits for me

fuzalas avatar fuzala Yeah You Are +1Reply

You've given me a new perspective on the negativity of religion. I still think, however, that a world with no religion would be better. Yet, it would also be more boring to an extent.

JohnJillkys avatar JohnJillky Yeah You Are +1Reply

The same could also be said for some religious people towards atheists or non-affiliates. the bias goes both ways.

YouCanRebels avatar YouCanRebel Yeah You Are 0Reply
@YouCanRebel The same could also be said for some religious people towards atheists or non-affiliates. the bias goes both ways.

I didn't say it didn't

I was focusing on religion
and since atheism isn't a religion...

fuzalas avatar fuzala Yeah You Are 0Reply
@fuzala I didn't say it didn't I was focusing on religion and since atheism isn't a religion...

i realize that, i just think people should be aware that one group is not entirely at fault

YouCanRebels avatar YouCanRebel Yeah You Are 0Reply
@YouCanRebel i realize that, i just think people should be aware that one group is not entirely at fault

but I blamed both religious and irreligious groups when I defined "certain people"

that covers everyone pretty much

either way
I see your point
because you pointed out another combo

fuzalas avatar fuzala Yeah You Are 0Reply

I'd argue that it's just as common to give religion credit for good things and when it causes bad things to just push the religion aspect aside.
I mean how often do you hear people speak of terrorists or the Westborough Baptists and hear them say "They're not real [religious people]."? That to me doesn't make sense.
I agree that someone who sees only the bad in something they don't like is unreasonable, but it goes both ways, and it happens with so many different things, to say that it's unfair on religion isn't something I agree with.

This comment was deleted by its author.
@1969406

you can have every single one of the bad things without religion

you're kinda repeated what speckle said
and I've already addressed him

fuzalas avatar fuzala Yeah You Are +1Reply

It differs among individuals, whether they have ever felt the influence of religion or not..

Take me for instance, I have an immense BELIEF in my religion, and even in bad times, it is this belief that fosters my movement, and never lets me step back. And to me it has always worked.

Religions are just a "belief" that there is SOMEONE who's making sure you get the best you deserve out of life.

So even when you get what doesn't look good to you, it turns into something better if your belief doesn't fail... It's not a fairy tale.. As much as some people fail to agree with, this always applies to my life..

ZaraZoopers avatar ZaraZooper Yeah You Are 0Reply

Many seem to blame religion as the root of all evils... but I think evil exists regardless of religion.

hugos avatar hugo Yeah You Are 0Reply
@VicZinc Sadly, we will never know

Nonreligious people surely do bad things. I think we do know.

JohnJillkys avatar JohnJillky Yeah You Are 0Reply
@JohnJillky Nonreligious people surely do bad things. I think we do know.

ah - a neutered dog will still hump your leg - but if there was a world in which all dogs were born sexless would one still hump your leg?

In a world with religion, non-religious people do "bad" things - mostly because religion defines what is "bad".

We will never know if "badness" would exist in a world where there never was any religion to define "bad".

@VicZinc ah - a neutered dog will still hump your leg - but if there was a world in which all dogs were born sexless would...

Religion isn't the default position though. People generally figure out what's bad without religion through experiences. Yes, morals would be different but some would most likely be the same because they aid in our survival as a species.

JohnJillkys avatar JohnJillky Yeah You Are 0Reply
@JohnJillky Religion isn't the default position though. People generally figure out what's bad without religion through...

I totally agree.
My point being: we will never live in a society in which religion is completely absent, so we will never know, for sure if evil would still exist.
It might but there is no way to test that theory,

@VicZinc I totally agree. My point being: we will never live in a society in which religion is completely absent, so we...

Id say its EXTREMELY likely we'd still have morals. Other animals probably aren't religious and they have their own moral codes. But I guess there's no way to KNOW for sure

JohnJillkys avatar JohnJillky Yeah You Are 0Reply
@JohnJillky Id say its EXTREMELY likely we'd still have morals. Other animals probably aren't religious and they have their own...

Yep. But also - morals =/= evil.

Can you have morals and also not have "evil"?

telling lies, adultery, lechery, etc. might be "immoral" but, are they evil?

I asked before, what is evil?

@VicZinc Yep. But also - morals =/= evil. Can you have morals and also not have "evil"? telling lies, adultery...

We've talked about this before and agreed, I think, that there is no objective morality. Everyone has a different moral code. Evil includes the things that go against one's code I guess. I don't think lies are inherently immoral. Others do.

JohnJillkys avatar JohnJillky Yeah You Are 0Reply
@JohnJillky We've talked about this before and agreed, I think, that there is no objective morality. Everyone has a different...

Not to re-hash old conversations, but...
to me "evil" is a noun
not an adjective.
I do not think it exists.
It certainly cannot exist without religion to provide the (opposite noun) good.

When juxtaposing the objects
good/evil :: god/devil
you need one to have either
and when you have one you have both

@VicZinc Not to re-hash old conversations, but... to me "evil" is a noun not an adjective. I do not think it exists...

Good and evil don't exist objectively, but subjectively. Subjective good and evil would exist without religion. The good and evil in all religions are subjective actually. Yes, you need one to contrast the other for either to exist subjectively or objectively.

JohnJillkys avatar JohnJillky Yeah You Are 0Reply

science, religion, how about philosophy?

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