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Slavery never ended. Industrialization changed the terms of agreement.
"Pray I do not alter it further."
Darth Bezos
Agree. Capitalism and Corporate system is basically minimum security prison.
Of course slavery never ended. Even ignoring it in other countries or conflating wage slavery with traditional slavery. In the United States the amendment that people think banned slavery had an explicit exception.
There's a reason the prison industrial complex is so powerful. It's the last source of legal slavery in the US.
That's because employees who only care about money will leave the first time any other firm offers them even a little bit more money.
Employee churn is a big issue especially in sector involving high hiring, training and development costs.
Here's the thing. Most companies believe they're doing something good in the world, but the company doesn't exist if they don't make money. So they do what it takes to stay profitable so they can continue on with their good cause, which often means trying to get as much out of the workforce as possible with as little overhead costs as possible.
People often conflate a company wanting to make money with a greedy CEO, but these are very different things.
Yet here you are conflating a company with something that has beliefs.
Two weeks' notice before a layoff should be the law.
So hypocritical of them- like people are hypocritical. But companies aren't really people- yet we protect them like people.
I just want to work a livable wage and do what I do well, but every company wants me to keep rising through ranks and then turn into a people manager. Just let me a do a great job and enjoy my weekends off. Please.
Idk what is so hard to understand about this. My company doing "excellence programs" and other stuff that i have no interest in but my boss is low key pressuring to participate in because it will make him look good.
Like i just want to work my shift and enjoy my free time ;/
I had a minor epiphany during my paternity leave last year where I realised I didn't actually want to be a manager. I had been applying for and been rejected for a bunch of team lead/management positions in my company and it was really getting me down. After being off work to be with my kids for six months I realised I didn't even really want the hassle, I like my job, pay is decent, it's pretty low stress. All this time I had been focusing on climbing the ladder because that was what I had always been told was the whole point of the exercise. I ended up getting a slightly more senior version of my existing role and a pay bump 6 months after I came back from my leave and tbh I'm absolutely fine with staying at this level for the foreseeable future.
Here i am dreaming of a managerial role...
Reminds me of one of my favorite memes I'm having turned into a t-shirt: "Dream job? Sorry, I don't dream of labor"
If you're good at your job, we'll promote you until you aren't!
Truth. It sucks that the big salaries are often "paywalled" in managerial positions. I'm a graphic artist. I'd make a horrible manager as I have no people skills and don't like heavy responsibilities like managing teams and what not. But to get out of my poverty I have kiss ass and work harder than usual to get to a position I have no interest nor am not equipped to handle? If only liveable wage existed.
Everywhere is up or out these days. I had 'out' chosen for me in a round of layoffs last year and have no desire to go back to the industry. Still sucks, but at least I know where I stand.
I feel like they just want employees to move on because it would save them money down the road.
Just quit my job Monday for this exact reason. The only reward for being good is getting double the work stacked on you to pick up the slack of others.
Where I work is like this. If you volunteer to help, your days off don't exist. I learned that the hard way a few years ago.
With my current job I do a great job but always get my 40 hours a week in. 🙂
When they try and force you into a management position start talking about an equity incentive for taking the position..see if they back off. I've had upper management come at me with the sentiment of "Well we don't really have anyone else to manage this so you're it.". Sorry I decline..there are no company battlefield promotions.
What's an equity incentive?
Meana ownership stake in the company which the management or owners rarely want to give out. If they said yes it could be a big win for everyone.
and make you actually have an incentive to work hard to help the company, instead of just being an alienated wage worker.
No, no, the "incentive to work harder" thing only applies to CEOs who already have enough money in the bank to comfortably last ten lifetimes, for some reason.
Stock options, often with restricted share units with time vested requirements. Retention strategy that is a big benefit but not directly cash for the company I.e. bang for its buck as a bonus
It's the fanciest phrase I've ever heard for a raise.
If that's what you think equity incentive means, then that's a pretty good indication that you'll never be offered that in your lifetime.
You had the chance to help a person out with your knowledge and you chose to be scornful instead - a real pity.
Could be stock options
So what brings you to our company?
They want them motivated by the promise of more money.
"If you keep up the hard work you might get a raise!"
Bastards...
Like how they claim we're part of the "XYZ Company Family," then not bat an eye when they make the business decision to layoff the entire department.
As someone who was apart of the Best Buy layoffs, I feel that emotionally
I was going to crack a joke on account of "apart", bit I feel a hug is more appropriate.
I've been there, it sucks, but as the OP says, it's a good life lesson.
I mean, to be honest even though I'm back in the job hunt I'm much happier. It was a company that's going downhill fast. More positive mental outlook
What did they call you guys at BB? Team?
My current employer calls us a "village." My past employer called us "partners" 😑
And then give the executives millions of dollars in salary and bonuses while saying the layoffs are to mitigate financial losses
Late stage capitalism for you.
I laid some people off from my family. They were costing too much in time, resources, and stress.
Did you try progressive discipline starting with verbal warnings, followed by written warnings, personal improvement plans before firing their asses? Could have saved you on unemployment.
nope. just cut them off. They actually owed me money so I didnt have to pay jack.
I was a family man, doing family things.
Just know that someone got this BoJack reference haha
I love bojack but don't get the reference. Where was it from?
BoJack
I'm pretty sure this was a Donald Trump reference. I don't recall a anything like this from Bojack but maybe I'm wrong
"Congratulations you're hired. Remember, we don't want people who are just here for the money!".
"Sorry we have to let you go. We're a business. We need to make money."
We're a family that abandons some of its members when it gets too hard to support them.
Because it is the owners of the company who are actually motivated by money. If they never had to give wages to their employees, they probably wouldn't. But it's the law so
It's more so because people won't work for free, not the law
It's very much so the law. Yeah, people wouldn't work for free. But it is more so if companies could pay you less, they would. If they could employ children, they would.
And they do...in countries that they can get away with doing those things. Its infuriating.
People can basically get ready to work almost for free in many poorer countries due to a dearth of opportunities.
There is this really cruel thing called unpaid internships I think you might want to look into.
Congrats, you just discovered class conflict
That's not true. Being extremely money motivated is a very important characteristic of a good sales person
Identifying an exception and proving a general statement false are two different things.
That's a single example. There are, undoubtedly, other jobs that see being money driven as a positive trait in employees. I really can't believe I have to say that
I know. I'm just being pedantic honestly.
I'm motivated by money. It would cost too much for my employer to replace me. I understand that. So long as they can't replace me I'm good.
You've just described why capitalism sucks in one sentence. Grats.
Which is a large part of why things run differently in government and the public sector.
And at job interviews, when they ask you why you wanna work there, they know if you're really thinking "for the money", but will still get mad at you if you actually say it.
Say it anyways and look them dead in the eye when you do.
Power move.
"Well if you love money so much why don't you marry it?!"
Some people basically do
I mean what they're really asking you why is why did you apply here over all the other possible jobs you could have applied for.
Perceived a more realistic chance of getting the money here.
I applied to those too. If I hear back from them and they offer more money I'm gone. But until then I'm your guy.
How much are you offering again?
This is exactly why they don't hire the people that say that they're just there for money. If you give indication that you're more willing to jump ship than another applicant, it makes more sense to spend the money training the one that at least pretends they'll stick around.
Then hypothetically each company should offer you about the same. To some degree other factors can tip the scales. It's unfortunate very few have the opportunity to actually choose this way.
In reality they are just looking for innocent people with big hopes, so they can exploit or gaslight them into company culture easily
They're looking for if you did your research on the company. It's a dumb game but if you answer 'for the money' it doesn't really tell them what they want and it will reflect poorly on you too. "for the money" is pretty much implied throughout the entire process.
It's how capitalism works it's like a game of king of the hill but you have to deceive the others into to letting you climb over their heads
Can we please change this to like Fortune 500 companies or something? I swear the anti-establishment rhetoric that people are saying nowadays is pretty toxic. There's a lot of smaller companies out there (especially the mom and pop ones) don't deserve employees that have this kind of mindset.
The beauty that is capitalism
Capitalism, when focused on the collective good is an awesome system. The market pays for everyone's living. Capitalism, when when focused on short term gains, trades prosperity for profits.
Capitalism is definitionally and operationally oriented towards profits. If you are not profit seeking, you are at the mercy of those who are. Private ownership begets more private ownership. The winners use their winnings to win more.
Yup, within a capitalist system there is always going to be worker exploitation somewhere along the supply chain.
Someone just discovered capitalism! I recommend you read Wage Labor and Capital by Marx, it's a great intro to anti capitalist theory
On paper it's a symbiotic relationship. My time, for your money. Obviously, if one side decides to arrange it in such a way that it benefits them much more than you, that's good for them. So is gaslighting you into thinking that it's just the way of things. It's natural for them to take that position. Of course, you figuring it out threatens the balance, and they don't like that.
Capitalism would be a great system if it was limited to free contracts between equal individuals, but when the two parties are a human being and a vampiric leviathan then one side clearly has the leverage.
I think capitalism as a default is good, but needs referees willing to step in when it doesn't work.
Now, I know some might read that second part and become uneasy. "Doesn't that leave the door open to an oppressive government? I care too much about freedom for this refereeing stuff." To those people, let me just say one thing: I care about freedom as much as you do. I just think it is dangerous to think of the government as the only entity capable of taking it away.
Define "doesn't work". Because leveraging power and assets to "capitalize" on a situation is capitalism.
When there are large market inefficiencies. Profit is, definitionally, a sign of market inefficiency.
Profit can be simply a reward for putting capital at risk. Profits that are too big relative to the risk taken are a sign of market inefficiencies, like monopolies or regulatory capture.
Profit is capitalism. Profit by private enterprise.
Problem is humans. No human referee is beyond influence. Case in point: politics.
(I include myself in this maxim)
The problem, ultimately, is greed. If people with power (whether political or economic) acted selflessly, we wouldn't need to have this conversation.
Unfortunately, power tends to end up in the hands of people who want it for themselves for some reason...
Maybe we need to consider if AI can be useful in politics then.
The problem with all the most powerful people in society being wealthy capitalists is that the referees get bought and sold just like everything else in their world.
I have lost my faith in humanity. Give power to the government? Bam tyrannical asshole. Give in completely to capitalism? Now the narcissistic assholes own the government.
Which is why unions need to be strong. I think unions are a necessary evil. If a company treats their employees fairly then they never need to organize, but the moment the company starts to exploit their labor they deserve to be choked out by the boa constrictor called organized labor.
Until the union leaders have some incentive not to protect the workers...
How are unions evil?
It's just assholes all the way down and you gotta find your special floaties or drown in the doodoo of life.
That was beautiful.
Words to live by
The older I get the more I realize human nature is the real problem, not "the system". It doesn't take that many bad apples to ruin it for everyone. And there will always be bad apples
It's not human nature. It's learned behaviour. Things that can cure it primarily include investing in good education.
That is a really optimistic view of humanity that I wish was true.
yeah, i mean, even today there are countries on earth where the majority of people are well educated and mostly empathetic. my mind immediately shifts to Canada, Norway, Sweden etc. but there are many more examples.
Humanity is not doomed to be a moral failure.
You think the elites aren't the most well educated people on the planet? You think they just flunked high school or what?
The point is educating all people so they can't be taken advantage of as easily. Obviously educating a select few will make it easier for them to oppress others.
Dont underestimate how easy getting more money is when you have a lot of money. A little bit of common sense and something like what trump called a 'small' 1 million dollar loan from dad go a long way. And not to mention what do you need for an education? Money.
So long as you can keep the latter from having undue influence in politics, the oppression is minimal and can be overcome or dodged by means other than violence. The former option allows the narcissistic assholes free reign to do as they please.
Union strikers in Central America were summarily executed by Chiquita banana.
Is there a better system? Is there a system that's lifted more people out of poverty than capitalism? Literally billions of people. Is there a better way to use people's own self interests to serve the community at large? Capitalism is far from perfect but I haven't seen a better alternative yet.
at the expense of other billions of people left to rot in the third world that the first world steals from (imperialism)
Capitalism is so good at growth because it ties economic gains to the necessities of life. In a purely capitalist state with no interventionist policies, if you don't work you starve. A socialist state takes that pressure off, often leading to stagnation. But that stagnation is the cost of removing the gun from the heads of the citizenry, and can often be managed easier than the reverse.
Is there a better system than roman cesars? We ancient romans haven't seen anything better yet so let's not try.
When I started at Costco the store manager came and spoke with us and basically told us it's okay to be motivated by money and that he partly is as well.
I like a manager that will just be straight with you.
Then he took down our pants and slapped our penises around for forty five minutes straight.
I like a manager that pranks ya
All the more reason that churches are the best businesses.