The voters have decided that DueBodybuilde is right! Vote on the post to say if you agree or disagree.
Also about Friends & Socialising+98The feeling you get when you accidentally delete an entire four paragraph text message comes awfully close to the feeling you get when you stub your toe. amirite?
Also by DueBodybuilde+137It's kinda weird how we leak liquid out of our body a few times a day, amirite?
Also by DueBodybuilde+108We come across people everyday that we will never ever see again. amirite?
Also about Friends & Socialising-125If the person you think you are, the person others see, and the person you actually are ever met, nobody would recognize each other, amirite?
Also by DueBodybuilde-60Hearing and feeling are the same thing, amirite?
Lovers/friends to enemies is SO much better. The drama, the pain, the realness, omg
Yes! I love it. The pain, the hatred, the longing for simpler times. The animated Prince of Egypt does this so well with the brothers to enemies trope. I'd love to experience some media that can create a moral dilemma that turn lovers to enemies. I'm sure it's out there and I'm totally open to recommendations.
Real life: 99% lovers to enemies, 1% enemies to lovers
Fiction: 50% lovers to enemies, 50% enemies to lovers
There is a great (but pretty "woke" if that's not your cup of tea) video called "Abuse as Romance" by the pop culture detective on YouTube that sums it up pretty well
When done averagily, yes. When done well, it's one of the best.
How about lovers to enemies
That's just real life
Recent Years? Have you ever heard of Taming of the Shrew? Late 16th century? By this guy called Shakespeare? Some people still read him to this day, shocking, right? And Greek stuff, too. But I know that hasn't had the same name recognition as Billy there.
Without pointing to any specific examples cuz I'm on break and in a rush…
This trope hits a lot of relateable emotional points. It humanizes an adversary, reminding us that the person working against us remains a person. And it illustrates pain points where we have to navigate difficult circumstances to be honest with not just our feelings towards another but also honest about who we are and what our goals are. These are tough concepts, and illustrating them through romance arcs makes them palatable while still exposing the viewer to the problems.
Yeah, and I ALWAYS notice that it's the girl that doesn't like the guy at first, and never the other way around. Like it's never the girl likes the guy but he doesn't like her and then grows to love her, it's always the girl that has to change her feelings.
I think it's because people are turned on by the idea. Sorry if it's creepy to say, but that's gotta be part of it.
I still like the trope when done well. It's satisfying to see someone struggling with conflicting emotions and slowly but surely realize they were mistaken about someone and come to love them all the more because they realize what they could have missed out on...
But yeah, it's done too frequently and poorly and had been that way for a while.
As a trope yeah, but have you ever met someone like that? Not necessarily romantically but alot of ny best friends started as rivals or enemies
Yeah. One of my best friends used to annoy me to no end. It was the same for him.
Then one day, we communicated out loud our dislike to each other and since then we became much more cordial, leading to friendship.
How do you have rivals or enemies in the first place? Do you see every stranger as a rival?
Promotions, attentions fron professors, attention from girls, you're always in competition with everyone around you. Some hate you for it, some enjoy that environment.
Yeah me too. I met this guy years back and we just did not click. We worked together in a bar and we would go out frequently with the rest of the bartenders and just like bicker and throw shade at each other. Eventually, he turned into one of my best mates and I realised that first impressions, while sometimes count, don't always. It's not out of the question that it could happen romantically.
I also hate it! I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I fully despised. Maybe if I found them a bit annoying then yeah but not actual hatred. Also in some enemies to lovers they say the most god awful things to each other and I couldn't imagine being with someone that spoke so badly to me
Oh there's definitely WAY worse tropes but I see what you mean, enemies to lovers is a make or break thing, some just seem like abuse, some are well done like villians and heros etc
The reason it is used so often is because extreme feelings in one direction can more easily flip to the other than neutral feelings.
The opposite of love is not hate but indifference
Sometimes enemies aren't enemies because they are different. Sometimes it's because they are too similar.
I can see it. Probably won't participate in it, but I can see it.
It's not much fun in real life, either. Two years of an abusive relationship is what I got when I did it.
friends to lovers>> it works better
But it's boring to watch. Enemies to lovers is popular because of the drama. No one wants to watch a regular realistic love story tbh
Slap face to kiss face is the worst trope in romance movies.
I love it. Especially in Kdramas; a nice predictable plot for me to half watch while playing on my phone
Agreed, "lovers to enemies" is much more realistic.
Enemies to lovers is the brain surgery of romance tropes. Even the TINIEST wrong move can kill the entire thing and it takes an expert to do it properly. So I completely understand why some people don't like it. I personally like it when it's done well, but still.
I don't agree with this.
3 words, one abbreviation: TOH
The trick to doing this well is learning that neither character is truly malicious. Your protagonist sees things from their counterpart's perspective, and realizes they acted reasonably, and maybe even correctly. The same realization must come for the love interest as well.
Personally, enemies to friends is more my cup of tea, and it is much more likely to happen irl.
My problem with it is that in order to have been enemies in the first place, there must have been a significant reason that has to be resolved before a relationship begins, but it has to believable enough to feel realistic.
This is a difficult balance to get right and most often time it isn't done well. The conflict has to be reasonable (cultural, personality clashes etc...) but it can't overpower any possible chemistry.
I feel that it was done quite well in pride and prejudice.
in theory i feel like it can be done well, but it just hasn't really happened in recent. like i think enemies to lovers can be interesting so long as the enemy doesn't go too far and the romance actually contributes to the plot
Yeah pretty awful trope, but one of the worst has to be guy does one nice thing and the girl falls in love in with him.
Too many people believe in that.
I can't stand this trope because it's never executed well.
Either the two people involved have really meaningless conflict 10 years ago or it's something really serious like one of them killing the other's sibling.
I can't take the first one seriously as enemies to lovers and the other one is too extreme to possibly enjoy.
Don't watch much shows so don't know how popular the trope is. Must be like me and time travel story lines. Majority are crap unless done well
It is a super easy thing to write, honestly. You have built in conflict, which is generally what drives a story, and you have a beginning and an end. Everything is pre-built and manufactured for the most engaging romantic progression. Some might even say that it is super easy, barely an inconvenience.
It's easy to write, but hard to write well
Exactly. It's hard to nail that progression from enemies to lovers while making it feel natural and not forced
I'm gonna need you to get wayyy off my back about this easy storytelling here
Wanting a romantic relationship with someone they experienced a lot of abuse from and have possibly been traumatized by is somehow very desirable people decided
I don't why I've been seeing Ryan George references everywhere all of a sudden, but I'm not complaining.
Ah, seeing Ryan George references everywhere is tight.
Wow wow wow.
It's that last wow that always gets me to lol.
Hey shut up..
Hi there, hello!
Listen, I'm going to need you to get all the way off my back about these Ryan George references.
Oh let me get right off that thing!
Engaging romantic progression is tight!
It's like step family porn. Not popular because everyone has that kink, it's just a really easy set-up
Wow. Wow Wow Wow.
counterpoint, it's great for fanfiction. there's no better couple than goku and vegeta.
And then when things go wrong, you can do a backflip, snap their neck, and save the day!
"in recent years"
*smiles in Jane Austen*
laughs in Shakespeare
THIS. Jane Austen is the absolute queen of enemies to lovers and honestly, noone did it better.
Sheesh, that's old. I was just gonna bring up Cheers.
There's also Moonlighting! But I prefer Austen.
My main issue with the enemies-to-friends trope is that it's so broad on its own that it it's almost meaningless to me beyond describing the scenario.
It covers characters who initially find each other annoying (which I tend to like), and situations where the enemies part is way too literal and not nuanced enough (and I just find the couple toxic whenever I see them).
i think it depends on the type of enemy. if they are just like rivals or something Im fine with it. if they were trying to kill each other earlier then no.
Imo it depends how it's written. If the characters genuinely hate each other and have no reason to become friendly/lovers other than sexual tension,it's just dumb.
Can you give examples of when it was done well? I seriously cannot think of any.
Depends on how they are enemies. If its a Romeo and Juliet situation where they are supposed to be on different sides due to outside influences then it works IMO.
Romeo and Juliet were never enemies though, their families were, but they weren't.
Isnt that more of a forbidden love than enemies to lovers
Okay but it's kinda hot
This is the only good argument for it.
There is a foundation in emotional psychology too. Angry sex (I don't know the actual rates), is commonly talked about. Hell, it's one of the reason dysfunctional couples stick together for so long. They get mad, have sex, the anger recedes, then tomorrow happens, and the cycle repeats.
It's also patently ridiculous; the last thing I want to do with a woman that I despise is even imagine having sex with her. The idea is so stupid, it makes my skin crawl.🤮
Ill be honest i completely disagree
Right that's all I care about and if the plot good then damn what a good story. I'll reread it again.
It's also pretty rooted in reality to some extent. I mean maybe not to the cartoonish lengths movies and media take it. But there is an element where conflict is closer to passion than people realize.
XOXO, Gossip Girl
Nobody did it better than Buffy and Spike.
Never watched Buffy before, currently on my first watch. I'm on season 2 and I've heard of the Buffy/Spike thing, so far it sounds really unlikely. Can't wait to see how it goes.
Enemies to friends to lovers I can get down with
50/50 for me personally. That one even more depends on how it's written, but I'm much warmer to it than EtoL
Lovers-to-enemy is a much more common trope, especially in irl
Me and my wife hated each other when we first met.
We've been together for almost 13 years (married for 5)
ITS MY FAVVVV wdymm😭 love seeing the emotional growth
Yeah, I'm not a fan either. The stories end up being really long too since the couple has to go from enemies to indifference to friends to lovers. The only enemies to lovers I can tolerate as my guilty pleasure is Hermione and Draco.
I only like it when it's well done, which rarely happens as you said. Some aren't even truly enemies, just 2 people who like to bicker at each other and that's lame. I want true enemies to lovers.
Having done the antagonistic —> romantic route before, I can tell you there is a very strange and addictive spark in the beginning. Ultimately, that's what the writers are capitalizing on.
how about a lovers to haters story?
Wait that's just all bad break ups.
I think it's sometimes that people aren't enemies. Look at soldiers. They just do as they are told. You think they hate everyone on the other side.
Look what happened Christmas Day during the world war. They played football and had a laugh etc. then went back to killing.
I think enemies is too simple a word to use.
Ugh I hate this romance trope!
I really like this trope since a really long time lol. But I gotta say, villain x hero is better in my heart
It depends on whether it's well written. If they're actually enemies, and somehow manage to bond over a common enemy? Yeah, it can be a damn hot book. If you can barely call them enemies from the start? I totally agree. Don't call it an enemy-to-lover book, and also, there's no point adding in the conflict.
Agreed! I'm so sick of it!
\>Since Bidgerton its gotten popular
My dude its been popular since AT LEAST when Pride and Prejudice was published. Its a very common arc.
Going from lovers to enemies happens more often in real life.
This is my favorite response so far lmao
❤️Thank you, it was a highdea.
Hahaha highdea, I'm stealing that term from now on.
A story like that would be amazing. Anyone know some films?
Now that I will watch. Even better when it ends in murder most foul.
Tbh Brooklyn 99 and Parks and Recreation did it well.
Unless you're talking Jake and Doug Judy, there is no enemies to lovers arch. Jake and Amy aren't enemies, they just have a friendly rivalry because of the bet (which Jake won and meant they went on a date, which is the date Jake became obsessed with Amy forever).
I'll give you Parks and Rec, because I think Leslie and Ben initially did bump heads.
The only romance worth talking about
Absolutely agree. Same with Once Upon a Time, and not just for enemies to lovers, but for enemies to friends. I love how well they develop the characters throughout the show. Enemies to non-enemies is a pretty common theme throughout and it just shows how people can change or how someone's views can change.
When did Brooklyn Nine Nine have a storyline about that?
Jake and Amy had a friendly rivalry initially
yes, not enemies, they were friendly towards eachother
Jake and doug
Haha, yes that was well executed
Rapists to lover is even worse. General Hospital made that popular for awhile.
I watched a documentary about bride kidnapping in Kyrgyzstan. Theres a lot of rapist to lover stories in that country. A good chunk of the women end up ... killing themselves ... but a chunk of them end up actually loving the guy. Stockholm syndrome is interesting.
Once upon a time kept using women casting spells to disguise themselves to trick men and get themselves pregnant as a plot point and I hated it
I just recently watched Wedding Crashers and yikes it's disturbing
Luke and Laura
That sounds sickening... good thing I have never seen that tv show...
Yeah, Luke was such an awesome character but then there is that bit of history that ruins it.
Comedian and the first Silk Spectre. Watchmen is my all time favorite comic in part because of how messy these people's lives are. It's still super uncomfortable to read/watch.
im sorry what?
it's one of my favourite tropes but i agree it's rarely ever done right. i think a lot of media goes too hard on the lovers part and sprinkles in a pinch of enemies. most of the time they're not even enemies, they're just normal ass people who don't like each other so there's no stakes or fear or risk involved
It can be done good but it is mostly terrible
I personally like it a lot. I've seen people usually mix bully x victim with enemies to lovers tho, which I don't think they should be the same troupe.
I guess I like the idea of 2 people who see eachorher as competition and have somehow a challenging relationship but end up slowly recognizing good attributes that the other person has and that they aren't "as bad as they tought". Maybe a healthier approach to that troupe.
I like it, but only when it's well done.
Okay but hear me out
Pride and Prejudice
as someone who is in their 6th decade, all I can say is LOL
yet I still watch hallmark christmas movies that all start and end the exact same...
Someone has clearly never fantasized about a dramatic duel at sundown before a waterfall where your lifelong homoerotic foe stabs you and gives you a tender kiss as you bleed out in their arms.
Well, it happens the other way round often enough. Passion is passion.
Step-mom is stuck in the dryer is the worst romance trope!
I'd take it a step further and say all romance tropes are crap. Love is never like it is in the movies.
I hated Rise of Skywalker, but I especially hated when Rey kissed Kylo. Made no sense, he tortured her and she's like, "I can fix him."