+153 You can commit any crime in space, no one country, state or local entity has the jurisdiction to charge you. amirite?

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Not true, you're in a U.S., Russian, Chinese etc spacecraft and essentially the law of the high seas applies. Therefore those jurisdictions would apply for any crimes committed on board. I think there is also a component similar to Antarctica where I believe your country of origin has jurisdiction over you regardless.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Yeah I was just listening to a podcast about this - if an American killed a Chinese citizen, China would prosecute. And vice versa.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Ok but... what if an American killed a citizen from, let's say... North Korea ? Then what ? THEN WHHHHATTTTT ???

by Anonymous 8 months ago

I think you clearly know "then what"

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Who said anything about being on a spacecraft? If I'm committing a crime in space It would definitely be easier without an audience

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Well, it's not like you could walk there! And it could be a single person spacecraft - unless your preferred crime is murder, then it could be a two person craft.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

That's where you're wrong, my preferred crime is loitering, maybe even littering if I'm feeling particularly devilish…

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Try jaywalking though, that's a doozy!

by Anonymous 8 months ago

What do you take me for? I'm not that evil!

by Anonymous 8 months ago

I'm gonna jaywalk in about 3 hrs 😈

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Loitering brings back memories from when I first found out Americans actually have such laws. Never was so pissed before, the dumbest thing ever.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

You are still inside a vessel: your space suit.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Good point

by Anonymous 8 months ago

So I just need to get out into open space without a spacecraft and take someone with me if I would like to kill them without going to jail? Seems like suicide with extra steps

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Personal safety is not guaranteed.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

This is how Buzz Aldrin was able to get away with masturbating on the moon.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Not only that! Also Scott Kelly smuggled a contraband gorilla suit on the ISS, to make light extortion and steal some bananas.. with no consequences.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Even worse he tried to frame Mark for it.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Mark was a dick. But they measure every ounce on launch. His wasn't as big as claimed. Usual male.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

There's always money in the banana stand.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

A shooting star, if you will.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Hey, I met him!

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Jizz Aldrin

by Anonymous 8 months ago

If you are a citizen of a country, they have jurisdiction. If you go in a country's spacecraft, they have jurisdiction. In some cases, the victim's country also has jurisdiction.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

What if you're in a commercial spacecraft? Wouldn't maritime law apply?

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Space Force gonna get em

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Space Patrol.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

buzz lightyear

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Space Ranger

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Mrs. Nesbit

by Anonymous 8 months ago

you would be charged under the jurisdiction of the vessel that you committed the crime. On board a US registered vessel US law would apply, same with Russians, Chines etc.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

False: >Under the Outer Space Treaty of 1967, while space and celestial bodies cannot be appropriated by nations, objects launched into space and personnel on board them remain under the jurisdiction of the state of registry.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Chances are if you're in space a higher governmental entity will absolutely make you responsible for what you do. Source: I jay walked to the International space station and hoo boy were they upset.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Ask drug runners intercepted by the US DEA how that works out - or US citizens prosecuted for conduct outside American territorial jurisdiction.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Yeah, you're right, OP forgot about Space DEA agents. 🙄

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Ah, an experiment to grow 'crystal' in space. what kind of crystal?...

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Dont worry they're patient and will be willing to arrest you at customs entering the USA.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Also .. Space Force

by Anonymous 8 months ago

But that is an extradition treaty, right? If I steal candy in North Korea, the US will not charge me?

by Anonymous 8 months ago

I think that's only because you didn't hurt their interests. If you stole from an American cargo ship at a North Korean port, or killed an American citizen, they would probably try to prosecute you in America even though the crime was committed in NK.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

True, but they'll definitely deport your ass if NK wants them too, they aren't starting a war over ya

by Anonymous 8 months ago

The US government retains jurisdiction over you as a person / citizen regardless of where you are physically. If they want you to pay a price they will make you pay - and the converse is true too.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Well this is just isn't true

by Anonymous 8 months ago

This is incorrect. Where not covered by space law, (it's more complicated than this, of course), maritime law applies. Objects launched into space are treated as a ship flagged on the high seas - and as such, jurisdiction over the object, say, a spacecraft or capsule, is held by its port of registry. This means you could in fact be charged with piracy.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Kill Aaron Paul's family

by Anonymous 8 months ago

"I got that reference"

by Anonymous 8 months ago

I'm sure if you murdered someone in space then came back to Earth they'd figure out a way to prosecute you real quick.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

If you were in a place that was "lawless" as you have described, it would be impossible to commit a crime.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Google is right there, man

by Anonymous 8 months ago

If you kill another astronaut in the space you'll still be charged when you come back

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Ok but any person who knows what you've done (or thinks they know what you've done) can judge you and take the action they feel is appropriate.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Clearly, OP doesn't know anything about extraterritorial jurisdiction.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Fun fact, Germany holds up the right to charge you with murder no matter where it happens... I think the idea behind it is that you cannot just rent a boat, go on a boat trip with your wife and come back a widower and no one can do anything about it... Obviously, that begs the question of provability, but law is utterly unconcerned about that... That's why we use cheap tricks like "beyond reasonable doubt." So, if you ever have evidence about a person committing a murder in space, you can invite that person to a vacation weekend in Germany and charge him there...

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Same in Austria, and many other countries.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Nice, a ski trip to conviction.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

We went for a hike on the Moon, and I lost track of her. Oopps!

by Anonymous 8 months ago

>Obviously, that begs the question of provability, but law is utterly unconcerned about that... That's why we use cheap tricks like "beyond reasonable doubt." "Beyond a reasonable doubt" isn't a "cheap trick"

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Uhh.. my favourite form of argument. Let me prepare an answer on the same level: Yes it is.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

You made the claim without anything to back it up. Proving something that isn't strictly logic or math is effectively impossible, as any scientist will tell you. For a court to require actual *proof* would mean no one would ever be convicted of anything. Proving something "beyond a reasonable doubt" is the standard because it gives us a way to acknowledge that we can't ever *truly* prove something, but we can get it supported to a point where it would be difficult to argue in good faith any longer. That's not a cheap trick; that's a necessary step if you want to have a rule of law that considers someone innocent by default.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Of course I didn't argue. That little sentence wasn't the gist of what I am talking and I try to avoid digressing too much. And you guessed my reasoning perfectly, so I was right and it is obvious. It is not absolute prove. About it being necessary. Never said I disagree. I just don't see how this disqualifies it from being a cheap trick. Sometimes cheap tricks are required to win. Hence, all you want to say that your definition of cheap trick is different to mine... What a boring statement. Uh, my dictionary says something else buhu! But fine. Here is an argument for my definition: If I fight a guy. And this guy is stronger in any way. So I have to throw sand in his eyes to win... That's the only way I could win, then it is still a cheap trick. No matter how required it is. Beyond reasonable doubt is the sand thrown. Because otherwise, the other guy would win every time. ​ Funnily enough I think that your argument actually is: "Something being necessary disqualifies it from being a cheap trick." That's a positive claim, isn't it? Hence the burden of prove lies with you.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Find a magical high value or lots of money to be stolen steal it and go back home and be rich

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Rudy Gulliani just read this and is putting a pitch to Trump together..

by Anonymous 8 months ago

But also, the premise is, they're committing a crime where there are local laws and federal laws. I'm saying that space has no local or federal laws of any sort.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

The issue isn't about what you do in space. The issue is what happens to you in the country you land in

by Anonymous 8 months ago

The craft is owned by the country that launched it, so the law of that country applies. If it's the ISS, then you can expect to hear from Interpol.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Op is right. There is no gravity in a crime committed in space.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

They would do it on the nationality harmed

by Anonymous 8 months ago

What if some private billionaire made his own spacecraft, flew to the moon, killed some NASA astronauts there and flew back. How would that be treated?

by Anonymous 8 months ago

graffiti the moon… lol

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Sweden has a law that says they would prosecute their citizens commiting a crime regardless of the place.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

you could still be charged/sued/whatever by organization which do not care about states. there have been decentralized law systems in the past

by Anonymous 8 months ago

And that's the ongoing problem with sydney Cook. They put him in a one man space capsule in orbit of earth so he wouldn't be a threat to anyone anymore. Unfortunately, a 10 year old boy was also accidentally put in there with him. "it's the one thing we didn't want to happen", a spokesperson said. Though since it's in orbit, technically whatever happens up there isn't a crime.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

In space, nobody can hear a police siren.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Ah! That's why all these billionaires want to travel to outer space.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

No, they want to travel to space to show off their super-cool-totally-not-compensating-oddly-dick-shaped-rockets. That they spent all that money on.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Wrong. If there are no laws in space then you literally cannot commit a crime because nothing is illegal.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

This some pirate logic

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Maritime laws are a thing of the past. You will meet a Naval fleet from somewhere.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Dude/sis didn't specifically mention what type of crime. I guess I'm gonna jerk off on moon upside down.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

It would the law of the origin of the spacecraft and maritime law and where you are from. Whenever you came back to earth

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Just like pirates back on the day didn't get charged, because the nations didn't have jurisdiction....

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Good luck shoplifting.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Tell that to Space Cop

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Most countries can declare jurisdiction If the victim or the killer is from there.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

If you commit a big enough crime, nobody will care and you'll still be charged or punished somehow lmao

by Anonymous 8 months ago

if you commit a bid enough crime you become a president

by Anonymous 8 months ago

And perhaps you should have "higher" aspirations than committing crimes in space.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Well technically the same applies to international waters (ocean). When you're in international waters, no single government has jurisdiction.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

And Ukraine is being defended against criminals by NATO without any laws specifying so

by Anonymous 8 months ago

The US has jurisdiction on their citizens all over the world depending on the severity of the crimes committed. They hold their citizens to a certain standard. I'd imagine they would hold their citizens to the same standards in space.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

I'd say whatever country or company's life support system is allowing you to live can claim jurisdiction.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

The space law or whatever you want to name it exists already.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Or international waters, you know…. Bit closer. Less effort.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

I'm sure space law is pretty similar to maritime law.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Piracy is piracy. Whether outside teratorial waters or waaay outside, someone is going to ruin your day.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Yes, anything not on the planet is international waters

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Same with the ocean, but it's easier to get there.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Didn't sexual assault already happen on the space station?

by Anonymous 8 months ago

It's easier just to stay home and commit crimes in secret, that works just as well or maybe better Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to return some videotapes

by Anonymous 8 months ago

Space ships work the same as ship ships. The laws of the nation the ship is flagged under apply.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

First crime committed in space was a woman who did some sort of ID theft. She was held accountable.

by Anonymous 8 months ago

I believe there was a case of an astronaut committing some sort of wire fraud or computer fraud from space? Against her ex-husband? Internet, help me out here.

by Anonymous 8 months ago