+29 Debate, Logic, and critical thinking classes should be required in highschool. amirite?

by zhyatt 1 month ago

We do teach that in high school we even have debate club, but getting kids to learn it is a different thing. Horse to water situation.

by yhammes 1 month ago

It's a thing I've only ever seen in American shows. Debate club would take off as well as Bible study in my high school

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Not required. Critical Thinking and Logic should be required, maybe even a combined course with intro to philosophy.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Well with all the testing we are required to do it is surprising we have any time for clubs or electives at all.

by yhammes 1 month ago

I think the philosophy is more important and the other things tend to come with it.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

My school had a debate club but not a single critical thinking class.

by Small_Eggplant 1 month ago

My high school didn't have a debate club or a single class on logic or critical thinking. I would have loved it if it was an option. Had to study philosophy on my own.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Well as testing becomes more and more important to school funding the classes that help in life are getting cut.

by yhammes 1 month ago

You might be right tbh. I feel like it should still be taught and practiced even in an informal environment.

by zhyatt 1 month ago

If they can provide a convincing argument for why 2+2=6 we would be forced to consider why two contradictory things appear to be true. 2+2=6 is a ridiculous example, but the underlying principle is that we should be willing to confront supposedly "eternal" truths, lest we slide into dogma. Science is just as vulnerable to this as any other field.

by GloomyDragonfruit 1 month ago

But wait! This is exactly what it would fix! Imagine all of the debate bros who confidently shove their terrible logic down everyone's throat. They'd have to present their terrible arguments in front their peers. The logic they present would then be pushed, and it would need to be defended. They'd need to have notes and research. It would blow up miraculously. It would be an absolute embarrassment. They'd be graded, critiqued, and if they didn't learn, would be punished academically, making it harder to advance in life. I know most people hate debating, but this is actually why we need it. I agree 100% with the OP.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Well, maybe not for that, but it would help some for future careers.

by Commercial-Half 1 month ago

Problem is the world has those already. Having more people with the ability to see an argument from multiple perspectives and still argue in favor of their own perspective is pretty valuable.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

This is an interesting way to think about it and makes me rethink myself some. Thank you.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I think the value of debate as a skill comes from the ability to take on the opinion and debate opposite of what you personally believe in, and develop the skill to be able to see things from the opposition's perspective.

by maxine14 1 month ago

That's discussion. Once you turn discussion into a competition is it utterly devalued. At least from my experience, debate is supporting an opinion regardless of truth, and seeing the process of finding the truth as a competition you win when you convince someone of your side, irrespective of truth. Might be different in some circles, if the aspect of competition is eliminated. I just haven't encountered that yet.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

We absolutely do NOT need more debate bros. Hard pass. Logic and critical thinking classes could be nice though.

by Patienceboyer 1 month ago

Yeah the problem with what a lot of people consider debate these days is more akin to a game than a proper discussion. It doesn't matter of your points are correct, or if you have properly represented the other side, it's most crucial that you score points so you can "win"

by Anonymous 1 month ago

From where I am in Canada at least, all 3 of these were taught as major components of English Class

by damorereinhold 1 month ago

The American public school system is severely mismanaged. It is honestly very sad.

by zhyatt 1 month ago

Add to that basic civics and media literacy

by glennie26 1 month ago

Why should they teach something that doesn't happen IRL. Like you said...a clean smart debate rarely exists.

by Alternative-Joke-408 1 month ago

some people are probably unaware they're even using fallacies.

by zhyatt 1 month ago

Some people are just not interested in changing their mind. What is the nature of these conversations you are having with them? Is it random strangers? Friends?

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Most people aren't listening to one another, just waiting for their turn to talk. Then they resort to strawman arguments and "whatabout-isms" when they're triggered or cornered with logic/sound reasoning

by Anonymous 1 month ago

High school is too late to be teaching critical thinking, it should be taught from the start.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Are we talking Album Logic or Mixtape Logic?

by FuzzyNoise6699 1 month ago

Sold

by Anonymous 1 month ago

In Germany (at least the part I live in), Ethics course is a common in high school curriculum, which have a lot of critical thinking and intellectual debate components as well as philosophy as part of the course.

by maxine14 1 month ago

They're called language arts, social studies, philosophy, and math.

by SeesawMinimum 1 month ago

Language doesn't teach you this, it teaches you language. Never had a social studies class teach me critical thinking or formal logic. Math only teaches it in relation to math problems. Learning 2+2=4 is a lot different than learning how to structure arguments or identify fallacies. It's philosophy that should be a requirement, and it isn't even an option in some schools (it wasn't at mine).

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Math classes are absolutely fantastic for learning logic and critical thinking skills. You'll learn more from classes where you work through word problems than in classes where you memorize the names of informal fallacies or draw out truth tables, and it's not even close. I think physics classes are great too for the same reason. Math classes teach you how to isolate useful information from noise, organize information, apply principles, think inside a rigid framework, and have some understanding of logical rules. In other words, they do teach you how to structure arguments and identify fallacies, if you realize you're not just literally learning math. In my opinion the whole reason why math classes are important is because, if taught well, they teach you how to think. Maybe you don't need to know calculus in your day to day life, but you need the skills you need to learn calculus. The real problem is that math isn't taught well. The idea that we need separate classes to teach students to think critically is basically an outgrowth of poor math education. Students should apply critical thinking skills they learn in math in classes like English.

by Jonesjohn 1 month ago

Freedom of religion pal they will not be taxed or closed.

by yhammes 1 month ago

Always nice to see a militant atheist get suspended after not understanding religious freedom

by Anonymous 1 month ago

We have freedom of religion in America precisely because of people like you. I am not religious but will fight to protect their beliefs from people who think the way you do.

by wizamadeline 1 month ago

Putting religious education in schools might actually help with that. It's a lot harder to fear other people's cultures and traditions when you've actually been taught it in school. We'd probably have a lot less Sikhs killed in terrorist attacks if everyone had religious education

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Shut down every synagogue too right?

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Your writing needs work.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Appreciate looking out. I wrote this on my phone. In what way? typos, formatting? I don't excel in English and writing. I'm looking to improve.

by zhyatt 1 month ago

Yeah, I'm a pot calling a kettle black, but if you're going to looking on down on the "majority of the population" you'd better be buttoned up. Doubly so if you're going on about structure and form.

by Forsaken_Doubt8197 1 month ago

I'm also wary of "going to looking on down on" [sic] others!

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Brutal, lol.

by Forsaken_Doubt8197 1 month ago

I'll buy you a drink.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

🤓

by Additional-Grab 1 month ago

Very unpopular, especially among the evangelical crowd.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I know this comes off as pretty self-righteous. You are. You seem to believe that being right or correct is terribly important. When it really isn't. You should not place being right over being effective. Arguing well and solving problems are different set of skills. Politics is full of arguing. Engineering is about solving problems. I'll let you decide which furthers the humanity more. As for "logic" and "critical thinking". You can't teach higher cognitive function much like you can't extend someone's height. Also lets not conflate higher cognitive function with being moral or ethical. One does not necessary follow the other and vice versa. Also we have maths in school. If you suck at math there is high chance that you suck at critical thinking too, cognitive function retains it's quality cross domain, that's why it's called "general intelligence". Before you burn me at the stake, don't mistake dislike of math classes for math itself. It's very difficult to teach it in an interesting manner.

by Vesta18 1 month ago

Logical and critical thinking is required not more debating ffs. Also if they make every skill compulsory in school, we would have to stay in school for 20 years instead.

by Material-Outside-823 1 month ago

You do realize your experience of an English class isn't universal right? My English classes didn't mention fallacies, argument structure, or formal logic a single time. Sounds like you didn't learn much from your logic and critical thinking education.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

This is such a a popular opinion that it was already implemented. It's called English class.

by ladariuskohler 1 month ago

There is no such thing as critical thinking.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

i'm tired of using an analogy and comparing one idea to another and the idiot on the other side of the argument saying "that's not the same thing". no it's not, it's comparable.

by Anonymous 1 month ago