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Infinity can be divided into infinite other infinities, amirite?
by Anonymous2 months ago
Yeah pretty much. Infinity doesn't play very nicely with our concept of arithmatic operations
by Glum-Lead2 months ago
That's because infinity isn't a number
by Anonymous2 months ago
True, but there are infinite numbers such as א0
by Glum-Lead2 months ago
But aleph null etc aren't members of the ordinary algebraic rings and fields like the integers and real numbers whose properties we have become so accustomed to and take for granted. Once you introduce algebraic structures with infinities defined, the algebraic rules become different and look less like "numbers" and more like some other thing entirely. For example, all the different ways you can rotate and flip a symmetric piece of paper also form an algebraic structure called the Dihedral Group, but its properties of multiplication operate very different than the ones we're used to in the integers. Same with matrix multiplication (example of a non-abelian ring).
by kundeenrique2 months ago
Exactly what I meant by infinity not playing nicely with our concept of arithmatics
by Glum-Lead2 months ago
Ah yes. Indeed!
by kundeenrique2 months ago
N@zi logo isn't a number
by Anonymous2 months ago
Haha the irony, I was joking anyway
by Anonymous2 months ago
Jokes have to be funny. "Haha antidemitidm am I right?" isn't a fuxking joke. Do better.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Antisemitism? Lmao, snowflakes.
by Anonymous2 months ago
lmao
by Anonymous2 months ago
When you said in school that you were infinitely better than me in something, I could add +1 to infinity and win the contest. No discussion. Unless you added +2 afterwards
by Anonymous2 months ago
Yeah but infinity (the amount of natural numbers) is provably equal to infinity+1 (the amount of non-negative integers)
by Glum-Lead1 month ago
Because of zero?
by Anonymous1 month ago
Yeah, adding zero doesn't change the amount of numbers
by Glum-Lead1 month ago
Yeah but infinity (the amount of natural numbers) is provably equal to infinity+1 (the amount of non-negative integers) I mean in respect to that
by Anonymous1 month ago
Yeah, and you understand correctly, the difference here is zero
by Glum-Lead1 month ago
That happens lol
by Glum-Lead1 month ago
If you use ordinals instead of cardinals, infinity + 1 and infinity + 2 are different.
by lisette491 month ago
Interestingly though Infinity can't be divided finitely into finite amounts.
by Anonymous1 month ago
The real question: Is infinity divided by infinity equal to 1, or does it equal infinity?
by Anonymous1 month ago
Infinity divided by infinity is undetermined, because the answer can be any number as well as infinity. Infinity is not something you can divide *by*.
by alexannejones1 month ago
You'd rather have to take a really close look at the infinity - i.e. the defining term. Then you'd divide the terms and take the limit of that going to infinity. Pretty often, you're able to cancel certain parts out or apply other tricks to determine a meaningful result. (See "limit theorem".)
by Anonymous1 month ago
That's not technically true
by oreillykarine1 month ago
why? how do you divide by infinity?
by Anonymous1 month ago
Renormalization is one method of dealing with/cancelling infinities
by oreillykarine1 month ago
Is that the same thing as dividing?
by Anonymous1 month ago
Two infinities of the same size can be cancelled out in equations
by oreillykarine1 month ago
so not division
by Anonymous1 month ago
How can it be "technically" true - or false? Maths aren't technical, they are theoretical.
by alexannejones1 month ago
I should have phrased it as "Technically this is not true" Two infinities of the same size can be cancelled out. It's a pretty common mathematical trick to get around the issue 😊
by oreillykarine1 month ago
No, you cannot cancel infinities. The infinities you are referring to are actually limits as a function approaches an asymptote. Infinity is not a number, do not treat it like a number. Treat it like a word.
by Billrodriguez1 month ago
You seem pretty confident in that, and yet it happens all the time 😉 Infinities of the same size can be cancelled
by oreillykarine1 month ago
You keep saying the same thing, yet you haven't given any examples to support yourself.
by Anonymous1 month ago
No idea. Either you think x/x=1 so infinity/infinity=1 Or you think infinity x infinity is still infinity, so infinity/infinity still equals infinity.
by Anonymous1 month ago
I think remember a proof that stated some infinities are larger than others.
by Anonymous1 month ago
It actually can under special circumstances.
by oreillykarine1 month ago
How? If you have a finite number of finite amounts you have a finite total, no?
by Milo231 month ago
Yes, because infinity is a concept and not an actual number.
by Anonymous1 month ago
Well if you want to get really into the math infinity is a type of number. But there are a bunch of specific infinite numbers that are all different from each other and are numbers
by Milo231 month ago
Isnt a number also a concept?
by Dedrickaufderha1 month ago
I would like to suggest Vsauces counting infinities video
by bboyle1 month ago
Infinity is a necessary mathematical tool, but the common mortals like you and me can perfectly live without using it even once. When applied to physics, it creates no paradoxes, though, it merely can point at limitations of our physical theories. According to our established theories, density becomes infinite in black holes, but that doesnt mean that the density in black holes IS actually infinite. It's just the result we get from our formulas when applying them to the extremes. And this most likely means that those formulas become WRONG past a certain point.
by alexannejones1 month ago
But how can the answer we get from our formulas when applied to extremes be ‘infinity'. It's not a number. How can ‘infinity' be the output of an equation?
by glovercody1 month ago
It approaches infinity as a limit
by Anonymous1 month ago
Easy : dividing by zero gives infinity as an answer. Basic maths.
by alexannejones1 month ago
Yep I forgot to specify that, when applying to physics, we'd just use positive values since physically speaking nothing is negative. My bad. A positive number divided by zero = infinity. Black holes according to theory : a positive mass divided by a zero volume = infinite density.
by alexannejones1 month ago
Agreed but for the context that we have here, which is maths applied to physics, we can consider we are limiting ourselves to positive values. In theoretical physics, a given mass in a volume equal to zero (black hole singularity) gives an infinite density, not an undefined one.
by alexannejones1 month ago
Maths aren't meant to be intuitive but they are what they are. One just has to be careful when applying them to reality.
by alexannejones1 month ago
Fair enough
by glovercody1 month ago
Everything in math is made up but also not made up. Math kinda transcends the laws of physics. Mathematicians usually aren't thinking in terms of laws of physics at all, they're thinking in terms of math, and they see math as its own separate piece of the universe.
by Milo231 month ago
It's a useful concept, I don't understand your problem
by Anonymous1 month ago
Take any two numbers There are more real numbers between them than every single possible rational number
by Anonymous1 month ago
Uncountable vs countable infinities.
by Ashamed_Quality_3611 month ago
Exactly!
by Anonymous1 month ago
Infinity is a concept, not a number. Mathematic principles fall apart when a concept is placed into a numeric construct.
by Anonymous1 month ago
Numbers are also concept
by Anonymous1 month ago
It can also be divided into infinite finites, or finite infinities
by Anonymous1 month ago
Oh yeah and infinity squared
by New_Shallot1 month ago
This is why infinity is a fake and stupid idea. "Arbitrarily large number" as a concept is okay. (And that's exactly what's used in all situations where people claim infinity is useful). But an actual "infinity"? Come on bro
by Anonymous1 month ago
There are an infinite number of different infinities each with mathematically rigorous definitions. And it's not even the weirdest thing in math
by Milo231 month ago
And they keep generating those definitions with desperate hope that at least one of them will be useful one day. That's the thing with math compared to, say, physics. You can just come up with stuff for no reason and with no application, but it's "rigorous", so let's publish
by Anonymous1 month ago
Lol we don't hope that it'll be useful. We don't care at all. We do it for fun. It just happens that a lot of it ends up being useful… which is really lucky because it means we can get paid for it But also infinity math is super useful in lots of contexts
by Milo231 month ago
Buy also infinity math is super useful in a lots of context Yeah, and its main utility is to show that you reached the limits of a theory and achieved nonsensical results. Nonsensical entity appropriately used to signify nonsense. Example: singularity inside black holes, because at that point general relativity loses meaning and quantum effects kick in But if someone tried to compare singularities between black holes, people would appropriately consider that person a weirdo
by Anonymous1 month ago
The singularities of black holes do not have infinities, they just have values that approach infinity, and it's the same infinity. Mathematical results involving infinities are not particularly useful for black holes. But for example cryptography and algorithmic complexity theory rely heavily on results in number theory that rely on transfinite numbers
by Milo231 month ago
"Arbitrarily large number" as a concept is okay. (And that's exactly what's used in all situations where people claim infinity is useful) There are a lot of scenarios where an arbitrary large number isn't helpful. If want to calculate the sum of 1/n2 for all values of n from 1 to infinity, you can do that, it's pi squared over 6. But if you want to calculate the closed form sum for 1 to 1080, you're going to struggle a lot more.
by heatherbeahan1 month ago
And then all of those infinite infinities are all equal to each other.
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