Karens are the result of lower standards of service, not the other way around, amirite?

Most of the time, you are yelling at an employee trying to do their job without adequate support from the company they work for. Cut them some slack.

by Mona11 6 months ago

This is the answer. Covid taught a lot of businesses that they could get by with skeleton crews and it's made service generally worse. It's not the fault of the employee you're dealing with at any given time.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Sorta, covid taught corporations that people have no choice and they can do whatever they want and people still need their products even if they are getting worse because whats the alternative for working class people.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

No no no. You're not supposed to blame the business owners, you're supposed to blame the poor person behind the counter!

by Paulinedare 6 months ago

I don't think so, there's been a Karen problem for longer than 4-6 years

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Sure, but I'd say it's gotten considerably worse in the last 5 years.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

There are decent and polite ways to correct an employee who made a mistake on your order that doesn't involve yelling. There is a type of customer that we coined "Joseph" that we love because they are decent, polite, and classy in correcting our mistakes of forgetting items.

by lethakub 6 months ago

That's the thing that cracks me up. Being polite and understanding is WAY more likely to get you your desired outcome verses being a total Karen. "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar" is a very old phrase some people still can't comprehend

by Paulinedare 6 months ago

Absolutely, when I worked in a service job if someone was nasty, rude or entitled I would do everything in my power to make sure they didn't get what they want

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Either that or yelling at an employee just for following company policies that they don't have any control over.

by Beahanaudreanne 6 months ago

Idk… All I really want from a customer service interaction is "hello," and "have a nice day" along with a smile. Even that is pretty rare these days, and you don't need company support for it either.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

That's fine, but if you don't get those things, it doesn't warrant a total meltdown while you call for the manager and try to get people fired. Often while saying vile and racist things.

by Signal-Wrongdoer9706 6 months ago

No of course not. I'm not defending that kind of behavior, just backing up OP's point that customer service has gotten worse lately.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

All I really want from a customer service interaction is "hello," and "have a nice day" along with a smile. Unfortunately, most customers I've dealt with don't share your sentiments.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

As somebody who quite literally works a part time customer service job while in school, I disagree.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

As someone who's currently working a customer service job right now, you can disagree all you want, I still don't share your sentiments. The majority of the people who come in either want you to provide them service above and beyond the norm, want to be entertained, want to wax political/philosophical to you, etc... Out of the hundred or so customer interactions I've had this week maybe ten or so boiled down to a "hello" and "have a nice day" affair.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

What do you do, just out of curiosity? I feel like we're handling different customers.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

I work for a lumber wholesaler that supplies Rona's, Home Hardwares, contractors, but most of the time it's customer's customers coming in to pick up for them. Maybe it's different working in a restaurant, but I know a decent enough chunk of people in the food service industry that I've been led to believe it's really not.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

That can be harder to do if you are stretched very thin. I've also found about 75% of the time, I do get that when that is how I initiate the interaction.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

"trying to do their job" well many times they aren't, they're doing the bare minimum. Which is probably what triggers the anger. Like have you people never worked and been around incompetent coworkers? Why do you love believing everyone is trying their hardest when it's objectively not true.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Being dissatisfied with the service is fine, especially if it's a reasonable bar you're measuring against. That doesn't make someone a Karen. What makes you a Karen is having either an unreasonable expectation of the service or berating a 16yo kid like he ordered the holocaust just because he forgot you didn't want tomatoes.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

I forgive a lot as long as the person who's interacting with me is trying and pleasant.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Depends. I think the term Karen used to originate from mostly white, entiteled, racist women who complain with no real legitimacy and quickly ask for the manager. These days, women, especially white women, are quickly called a Karen even if their complains are legimtimate and fairly voiced. I think somewhere along the line, people consider all women complaining as Karen behavior. Which sucks! Because as you said, sometimes service sucks and certain industries clearly cheat on their customers. In those situations, anyone should be able to speak up. And since women have a history of being labeled hysteric, being called a Karen for no reason is a step back.

by ButtonAggravating946 6 months ago

People like to overuse labels because it gives them a sense of "understanding" the world around them. They can quickly bucket all complainers as "Karens" and not have to ever think or engage with the situations at hand. It's a quick easy out. Very good analogy with "hysterical". Spot on.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

I think prices have just got lower as integrated supply chains get more efficient. The low prices means a much wider swathe of the population goes to the same stores rather than self-selecting by preference. There was a belt of smaller stores that provided very good service for about 15-20% above big retail. Big retail has now gotten their prices about 30-40% below these and the smaller stores have struggled to compete. People used to good service suddenly having to deal with 21st century stripped down mass-market "computer says no" service is legitimately a big cultural shock. Especially since the problem is often with higher end goods like electronics which they are more likely to buy. Add that to that prices have gone up across the board (even though mass market is 30-40% cheaper than retail), the sticker price is often what they paid at the good service stores pre-Covid. In short, it's a logistics issue as much as a cultural one.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

No it's the result of someone with unchecked levels of entitlement

by Intrepid_Hunt_7005 6 months ago

"The customer is always right" taken literally and throwing hissy fits when they're wrong and not getting their way. The customer is in fact NOT always right, they're wrong A LOT.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

This is pretty much it. Decorum within the customer service sphere has been replaced by entitlement. While I have noticed a general decline in customer service lately, I think that's also a response to the sheer disdain people in the service sector receive. If you're constantly treated badly, you're going to put up a wall.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Or a childhood free from "F around and find out-ing" like the rest of us had.

by Ok_Field_2456 6 months ago

Naw, levels of service have really gone down in the past few years

by Anonymous 6 months ago

That is true. But that does not explain a Karen which hates kids skating, coming up to you because she thinks you do not belong in the neighborhod and similar…

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Karens have existed long before the last few years though…

by Paulinedare 6 months ago

Yes but they were very rare...

by Anonymous 6 months ago

LOL. No, they were not.

by Paulinedare 6 months ago

Lol you're wrong though. But okay, believe what you want

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Have you ever worked in food service or retail? Karens have not been rare at all.

by Useful-Pumpkin 6 months ago

Yes, I was a waiter for many years in the ultimate karen place: palm beach. They are rare.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

How old are you?

by Paulinedare 6 months ago

bad take, Karens pop up in non customer service interactions constantly.....

by Anonymous 6 months ago

If you get angry enough to yell and throw fists at a 16 year old over your Big Mac, you got bigger issues.

by DistributionSweet283 6 months ago

I would agree with the caveat that corporations have moved towards understaffing since Covid and never gone back. Ofc service will suffer. Your service would have suffered in your six years of experience if you had to do it by yourself or with one or two other people. I've been to Starbucks or Dunkin's with one or two people working. And the line piles up, plus online orders. Which is another thing: online orders didn't exist back in the day.

by Fannyward 6 months ago

Yeah, because the phone used to ring off the hook instead.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Online orders have the capacity to place orders faster than you ever could by phone. 20 people can simultaneously place an order without your assistance but over the phone you'd have to individually speak to them and write down what they want. Not even close

by Fannyward 6 months ago

I'm gonna sound old here, but it is what it is. And I say this as someone who worked in service a long time. Service is worse than it was 5 years ago. Much. There's a whole base of knowledge that seems to have been lost in all but the best establishments. As I've been informed by a bunch of my anti-work friends, customers aren't entitled to service. We're supposed to, I dunno, be pleased to get surly, indifferent or inept service and we should be pleased to pay more for it than we did just a few years ago. I'm generally not inclined to complain about service, but when I do these are the factors I'm seeing at play. Sorry I interrupted your doomscrolling or chatting with your friends to ask you do your jobs, ya losers.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Yeah I wonder why people aren't falling over themselves to give you amazing service you sound like a very reasonable chill guy

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Depends what you mean by less money. If you earn 20% less but rent and bills were 50% less then there's your answer.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Everyone has a little Karen inside them.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Karens are the only ones confident enough to actually open their mouth and complain about the service

by Anonymous 6 months ago

I have never seen a woman start a violent fight in a restaurant. People in the internet will call a woman a Karen if she complains about anything in public.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Personally, I don't think anybody rises to the level of "Karen" unless they are intentionally being loud so that every other customer and employee can hear their pain. Since 911, and especially in the last few years, anybody intentionally getting loud and causing a scene in a public space will immediately cause people to get scared and nervous and worry about "active shooters" and "terrorist" etc. I know the "Karen" may not think they are being violent, but they're creating a situation that could turn violent very quickly for all the wrong reasons.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

More people need to complain about bad service, I'm not saying they need to go full Karen causing a scene but don't just sit there and eat it if they didn't cook your chicken all the way through lol, complaining doesn't instantly make you a Karen.

by Schneiderdoyle 6 months ago

Agree, they are more willing to escalate early as well.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

My sister Karen, (the original) will complain about ANYTHING!

by Franz98 6 months ago

The main trait of a Karen is to be an asshole. There is never an excuse to be an asshole if the worker is not rude to you first.

by Bradly95 6 months ago

No, true Karens are people that go out looking to start trouble like this. Either because they want to try and get a discount or something free, or, because they are just that much of an asshole. I agree the standard of service has dropped in recent years, but we had Karens long before that and will continue to have them even when things improve.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

I don't really think the standards of service should be very high for minimum-wage jobs. You get what you pay for

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Karens are the result of entitlement and lower standards of service.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

A Karen isn't so much a person who complains about something. It is more about HOW he/she complains. Endless nagging, aggressive behavior, insults, verbal and physical attacks, racism - sorry, they are not acceptable. They are not productive either. If I don't like the service, a few calm, yet determined words to the manager, the using of the official complain channel or even taking my business elsewhere are much more effective.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

No, they aren't. Complaining about terrible service or treatment isn't a Karen. You're using the term incorrectly.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Those things are not related imo. There were always aholes and Karens since first people exchanged a rock. Lower standards of service is mainly cause the pay sucks and the overall respect between people is lower.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Cashiers have gotten dumber. I don't blame them for what they get paid but it's not rocket science.

by Middle_Honeydew_7724 6 months ago

My coworkers mother was given the wrong shake flavor in the drive thru. She walked in and they remade it. This time it was spilled all over the side of the cup. They made a third shake and it had hair in it, like a very long hair. She slammed that third shake on the counter and it sprayed up, hit the ceiling and splashed down on the counter. She was permanently banned for that.

by Jealous-Weird 6 months ago

Considering you get them at some of the places with the best service standards in the world I would strongly disagree.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Dissatisfied employees are the result of having to deal with Karen's while also having their labor exploited by their employers.

by jamie35 6 months ago

This is exactly what a Karen would say.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

I didn't complain or slack when I was underpaid. In fact, I tried my hardest for some odd reason! What do you mean by better service? The times when my food hasn't been prompt and accurate stick out in my memory they're so rare. If you're grumpy about anything else you're entitled. It's fastfood, not the Ritz.

by Schmittbriana 6 months ago

Like everything in life, It's never a black and white thing. People turn issues into two definitive sides and pick one. It's simpler and easier to comprehend. What if I told you... bad service and asshole customers can exist at the same time?

by TopYak 6 months ago

Well, the expectations of people are those prior to Covid and I would say the Smart phone, however there are examples of "Karen" behavior from long ago. I think low standards in service probably ramped up greatly since Covid, but it is also possible that it was heading that way prior to 2020.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

The difference between a Karen and a person trying make sure they get what they paid for, is a Karen likes to win. They need the other person to lose. I feel like (or I hope) this is not what you're actually doing. Asking for a fast food worker to remake your burger because they gave you cheese when you said no cheese is one thing. Belittling them or yelling or finger pointing is another thing. You can get what you want/paid for without being a Karen.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Also the result of parent not teaching their kids 'no'

by Virtual_Summer_4434 6 months ago

standards are lower, manners have dropped off, work ethics have declined. Workers aren't being paid enough to maintain them. if you don't think you're getting paid your worth, quit. You're speaking from a place of privilege here.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

I do. But also, as long as people keep applying for low wage jobs, wages will stay low. However, if you show up you should show out. Your performance reflects on you, not just your company. I say this as a former McDs employee. And a retail manager for 20 years.

by Livid-Spare4937 6 months ago

People are applying for low wage jobs because that's all that's available currently. Then there's no upward momentum either because everyone stays having nowhere else to go. Maybe you were an exception to the rule as a manager but the current climate is that they don't care about you and you won't ever move up enough to be stable. Short staff, no training, don't you dare get sick or have a bad day. Showing up and doing your best is no longer appreciated or awarded. I don't expect it from service anymore but I'm appreciative when I do.

by mannsunny 6 months ago

You are right, they are trading their their time money. And if the employer pays the bare minimum, that is what he'll get. Why should the employee quit if that is an acceptable deal for them. It's not them you are trading money with, they just handle it, it's literally not their problem if you are dissatisfied with their service unless their employer also thinks it is, in which case it is their job to create better incentives. Leave a bad review and/or request a refund and/or email corporate/management and consider voting with your wallet if you are dissatisfied with a product/service

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Found the karen

by Oberbrunnermalv 6 months ago

The "Karen" accusation trend in most situations is just corporate propaganda trying to shame you into accepting poor customer service and inferior products so they can cut costs and increase profit.

by mercedesullrich 6 months ago

Even if the service you receive is genuinely bad, you can stick up for yourself without being a Karen. There is a difference between being firm but polite on getting something fixed and throwing a temper tantrum and destroying a store and throwing slurs around.

by Anonymous 6 months ago

Agreed. Service has gone down. Also turning the iPad around for an option of 15, 20, or 25 tip is infuriating.

by Bauchbette 6 months ago