EVs are not sustainable in any way and they will never be, amirite?

Currently, it's not sustainable, but it has the potential to be, as technology develops, but it can only develop through innovation and investment.

by Most_Couple_3203 1 month ago

We already have the technologies to mitigate emissions : collectivized transport. We just need policies to push them instead of the other. It's this blind faith in technology and innovation and the power of investment that got us here, and I don't think that's the same force that's gonna get us out of this mess.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Collectivised transport only works for cities, it also severely limits transport of goods and services

by Most_Couple_3203 1 month ago

But I don't want that. I want to get away from people on my weekends not be forced to only go places other people go. You can have your public transportation (which I am 100% for it would be super nice to have) and walkable cities but I'm keeping a car and primarily using it. And preferably living outside there. I need my own freedom and control There is a huge market for cars and always will be, you can't act like collectivized transportation is a real alternative. It's something we should improve and utilize sure but it will never replace cars

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Yep. Look at Netherlands which has incredible public transport, a lot of bicycle lanes , small territory and yet people own a lot of cars.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Owning a car and using a car are not the same. Driving to work might be normal over here but biking to the shop also is. Dutch people use their car less but still need a car for some trips during the week. Seems like some other countries need a car just to get out of their neighboorhood and pick up the kids from school or go to the shop.

by Clemmiezieme 1 month ago

We have a choice: a livable future for our descendants, or private cars. You're choosing private cars - hope you have an explanation ready for your kids. In fact, it isn't really a choice at all - we're completely committed to a future where we completely devastate our ecosystem and our ability to produce the necessities of life and statements like yours are completely normal. But I pose it as a choice, because it shocks me when people prioritize their own "freedom and control" over a future for our ecosystem. I don't have kids, myself. I love kids, myself, but I'm much happier I don't have to live in terror as to what the world is going to be like when they're my age.

by Eulahebert 1 month ago

There is a want from the (free) market for individual transport, so they will keep developing it. Don't underestimate the progress this will also bring for public transport. Also, you're thinking about the production problems with materials they are using right now, but they are also looking into sea salt and glass solid state batteries. If they figure that out, funded by the free market for individual transport, there will be a GIGANTIC shift in technology.

by Kallie85 1 month ago

Don't underestimate the progress this will also bring for public transport. I mean, this has gone on in America for well over a century, and public transportation is worse than ever, a lot worse, and is not improving, and we are facing the climate crisis right now, today, this minute. The way to bring progress to public transport is not by building private cars for individuals, but by building public transport.

by Eulahebert 1 month ago

I don't know if consumers are generally aware or not but there's a ton of funding going into alternatives to lithium-ion. Everyone knows the problems with EVs are their reliance on lithium and cobalt (and DRC recently suspended exports of cobalt so the price would skyrocket again). Many of the alternatives are significantly cheaper and far more environmentally sustainable.

by Patient-Seat 1 month ago

It's definitely a long ROI from an environment perspective. There are various analyses available, but they're all multiple years before BEV breaks even with ICE. Also, BEVs are currently "disposable" once the batteries degrade to an impractical extent (due to battery replacement cost), so it remains to be seen what a world with millions of "spent" EVs look like. A wrecking yard filled with clapped out Teslas would itself be an environmental disaster, as well as extremely dangerous.

by Positive_Froyo 1 month ago

Cars as a whole are unsustainable, we need to focus on car free urbanisation and public transit

by Anonymous 1 month ago

This is less likely to happen than EVs becoming sustainable

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Sustainability isn't just CO2 footprint my dude. internal combustion engines got a total efficiency of way under 50%. Using that fuel to generate electricity and charging EVs is already more efficient.

by elijah56 1 month ago

It's that ev's are very hard to recycle and the battery is only 70% after less than 10 years on average. Ice cars the engine can be remelted, the rubbers can be remelted and the plastic parts can mostly be recycled. Only the interior fabrics is a problem. With ev's it takes a lot of acids to recycle all the parts.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

What does that have to do with sustainability and efficiency?

by Anonymous 1 month ago

You miss the part where my truck has been constantly on the road longer than any EV?

by Anonymous 1 month ago

EVs are not there to save the planet, they are there to save the car industry. I don't however believe that they don't have a role to play in climate change mitigation. If we can sort out the problems you mention, including sustainable electricity sources, the impact of the rare earth minerals etc that they require, and the adoption of circular economy principles by the industry, then they've got to be better than ICE cars. But yes, mainly we need to be reducing private car use, to ideally only when it's the only viable option. If public transport, 15 minute cities, and cycling / walking infrastructure could be improved, then for most urban dwellers a private car would become a luxury rather than a necessity.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

They're better than ICE vehicles but they're still cars. They're meant to save the auto industry, not the planet. Trains, buses, cycling and walkable cities are much better.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

All about them makes them so they will never hit a point when their carbon footprint is less than the emissions they generate What does this even mean? Are you comparing EVs to ICE?

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Maybe not EVs in form of a car right now. But damn those E-Bikes a Hella fun.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I have one, unfortunately I can't really take it anywhere since my town sucks

by Tiny_Grand 1 month ago

I have a e-scooter and it's so much fun. No more the annoying engine screaming all the time

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Heard about aptera?

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Yes, they should declare a second bankruptcy shortly.

by Positive_Froyo 1 month ago

Yeah, I agree. Right after Canada becomes the 51st State, probably.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Haha clever. Read their 2024 SEC filing. They're functionally bankrupt now.

by Positive_Froyo 1 month ago

You must make a lot of money short selling companies? How often are you correct?

by Anonymous 1 month ago

There's no need to take my word for it. Please look at their SEC filing. It's all there.

by Positive_Froyo 1 month ago

The alternatives are not any better. Public transport is great but simply not practical or available to some. Part of the issue is we could do things better but people are obsessed with numbers. I would love to buy a Tesla (for efficiency) with a 30-40kw battery. Essentially 30% less battery than the smallest they offer. Should probably be the norm. When you can charge every day you don't really need the capacity. That said, to make that truly practical we need more rapid chargers. Not so much the amount of stalls at every location, but more locations as driving long distances you can run into issues with a battery this small. I don't think EVs are the issue here, I think they are the answer, but holding back that answer is us. We need less than we think we need and there is a lot of politics that are making things worse than they need to be.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Public transport is great No it's not. Trains and busses are always disgusting (granted my only experience is in CA). Then you gotta deal with the degenerates. Last time I took a bus long distance, two different dudes tried to rob me at two different bus stations. Never again, I'll eat the cost to drive.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Well, long term our technical civilization as a whole is unsustainable. And with it the current number of people on earth. Unfortunately. So it is more a question of delaying the inevitable

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Agree. Even if at some point they become emissions friendly, EVs won't make cities walkable, safe and sustainable.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I'm using fuel to supply electricity. It's called the sun.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

The arrogance to state categorically that something will never happen is astounding. Whether you're right or wrong in the current timeframe is open to debate, but to be so confident that you can predict all future tech and invention shows that you're blinkered and small minded.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

You are missing the point. The idea is to reduce the emissions of gases that increase climate change, which EVs achieve, arguably it's the lesser of two evils.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Neither are non electric cars plus they have a mountain of other issues. Saying something "will never" be anything is an ignorant take. Technology constantly evolves.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

they can be, we're just doing it wrong

by Actual_Title_6010 1 month ago

Very popular opinion brought to you by the ExxonMobil PR departement. It is wrong and stupid but not unpopular

by PlumLate5270 1 month ago