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Not every hobby needs to be "accessible" to everyone… and that's okay. amirite?
by Anonymous2 months ago
Interesting, I also went for the 40k example. Except I went in with elements of it have become way more accessible (youtube as a resource, cheap alternatives to hobby gear, kill team etc). But the game is still the game. Ie meta chasing is still resource intensive, full game still exists etc. Just goes to show how much nuance is in it!
by Anonymous2 months ago
D&D is an interesting one, because there's clearly a market for more complicated ttrpgs, but there's also clearly a market for less complicated ttrpgs as well.
by Anonymous2 months ago
5e, is, honestly, peak functionally crappy design. Too rules heavy to be rules light and too rules light to be rules heavy.
by Anonymous2 months ago
This is also such a valuable point! Thank you. I actually wanted to put something for when the "barrier" is knowledge, but none of my examples were quite right. I think somewhat related is when you have something that is super accessible at beginner levels, but then it's almost impossible to find spaces for intermediate and advanced levels because there's too much emphasis on being welcoming above all else. Like being in a book club where it's rude to spend the time discussing the ending because Cathy only read the first chapter and feels left out... Okay, that's fine, and we can talk about that for a bit, but where do I go to discuss the whole book?
by Fit_Discipline68722 months ago
I read this in such a way that you are at competitive knitting tournaments. I know they're out there.
by vwisoky2 months ago
Those Fender lessons are pretty good too.
by Huge-Rabbit-92502 months ago
Fender has so much of my moeny
by Anonymous2 months ago
Making a hobby more accessible doesn't take a single thing away from any given individual. One person wants to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a hobby and someone else wants to buy an extremely cheap version of that hobby for far less neither person is negatively affected by the other
by Anonymous2 months ago
Youtube tutorials are just another form of lecture. Most labor require a set number of tools that could be put into one all encompassing package. I'm not really sure this opinion is coming from a reasonable or informed place, i don't imagine its popular for that though lol. Thems the rules I guess, grats.
by Anonymous2 months ago
It's a little difficult to get on board with the opinion when zero examples were provided and I dare say zero examples can be found
by Anonymous2 months ago
An "meh" example could be that a lot of "hardcore" video games get simplified sequels in order to sell to more people. Splinter Cell for example was on the hardcore side up until after chaos theory but then the stealth element got hyper simplified and more and more action got added to make it more appealing to a bigger audience.
by toyuriah2 months ago
Pretty pedestrian level gatekeeping. Hard to feel special with your quirky unique hobby when it's not kept out of reach of most people. Either it was artificially expensive or learning materials were kept scarce. Sounds at least like the actual skill and artistry required is not very high. People that love a hobby want to share it and improve it. People that love themselves want it kept for themselves.
by Anonymous2 months ago
People that love a hobby want to share it and improve it. People that love themselves want it kept for themselves. Oooh, I'm borrowing this!
by Anonymous2 months ago
Reads a bit like someone who was able to make their hobby a side hustle, but it mainstreamed and the well dried up.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Yeah I'm sick of all the riff-raff bringing down the tone at polo tournaments and sailing regattas.
by calebwiegand2 months ago
Precisely! If I see one more uncouth troglodyte wander the deck in Hey Dudes and an Old Navy Polo I'll alert security. Now bring me another dark and stormy, lovey, I've had quite the day
by Anonymous2 months ago
Ugh. Don't you just hate it when plebes refer to their 55-foot boats as yachts? They don't even have people to drive their own boats for them!
by Anonymous2 months ago
I bet they probably have just two chefs and measly 25 person crew. Dock at the economy wharf in Monte Carlo too. Pheasants
by Select-Thought30672 months ago
"tugs down on Patagonia vest"
by Anonymous2 months ago
Lol. I'm such a pleb I couldn't tell you what Hey Dudes are. I'm going to take a stab at toff shoes?
by Anonymous2 months ago
Sailing gets a bad reputation because of the clubs in rich areas. But often there's middle class clubs that are just a shack and some docks. Show up and tell them you want to crew and they'll help find you a spot. You get to work ropes and act as ballast.
by Altruistic_Falcon4672 months ago
Lmao my grandfather always had a blasty blast and all he had was a 6 foot long rubber boat with a tiny engine.
by Friendly-Anywhere7852 months ago
The worst are the ones who show up like "tell me all about your hobby and how I can monetize it without doing any work" 👁️👄👁️
by Full-Mirror45922 months ago
Easy. Buy up everything rare until its so rare that it costs ridiculous prices for people who actually enjoys the hobby. Whales are a hobbyist's worst nightmare
by Anonymous2 months ago
Who is toxic about board games
by Anonymous2 months ago
Funny enough, sailing can be one of the more affordable hobbies if you do it through a club.
by isaiahanderson2 months ago
It's nice that you let him pretend.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Lol. Keep up the good fight.
by Anonymous2 months ago
How about any hobbies that require shared use of a common good where lack of knowledge and courtesy can have major negative impacts on the die hard users. That can be as simple as mountain biking on community trails right after a rainstorm and destroying it. Or backcountry anything where someone unprepared needs to be rescued and results in backlash against the community and closures of areas. Not saying there always needs to be a big financial barrier. But especially in hobbies with real risk i dont love the idea that watching a 5min youtube video puts you in the same group as someone whos spent a lifetime of learning and contribution. Lots of high risk hobbies have a background almost like an apprenticeship where you learn from another skilled hobbiest. Almost all those have good paid training courses if you need a way to break in.
by Wolffdanyka2 months ago
Tangential to OP, a different presentation of the problem: Camp1: a hobby you do with others like book club or softball etc. In that case I'd want more people involved because part of the joy is sharing it with others. This bypasses a common problem, possibly ignoring the problems that come with mass adoption by staying vague, so I'll explain how something ordinary still falls prey to it. People often think there's a universal agreement about what 'softball' is, that it is immutable, presuming that anyone joining the group is of pure intent and is guaranteed to just want participation. When others want to start to change the rules of softball, it begins to become a problem, especially when enough of them join that they overwhelm the original fans. They could have started their own XSoftballX group, but they don't. They want to colonize the Softball group instead. This colonization happens all too frequently in hobbies.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Book club is another great example. I'm in one, sometimes people will show up who didn't read the book. Why are you here? We are here to talk about the book, if you didn't read it you cant really contribute anything. I'm with OP. I feel like a lot of people treat hobbies as a thing to do in the background while you chat. But if you're someone who actually likes the hobby that ruins it. I don't want my group ride to have some dude on a cruiser who can't keep up and just wants to talk about his week. I don't want someone to show up to a board game night, who doesn't like board games and just wants to hang out and drink beers.
by leola542 months ago
That reminds me of our office bowling team. I'm an OK bowler but there were a few people who really wanted to join the league and have a team. I wasn't into that much so my husband and I signed on to be alternates so we could cover when the team was short bowlers. Believe me when I tell you that I may have been the only person that played every single week the whole season because EVERY SINGLE WEEK enough regular members flaked that they needed (one and often two) alternates. When they were rallying to field a team for the next season, I was no thank you, I'm out.
by TemporaryInside2 months ago
Im not sure what you're trying to say here because first you say it's an exception but then you describe how gate keeping makes the hobby worse for you.
by Anonymous2 months ago
How old are you? Cliche-edgy-loner-rogue-based-on-an-anime-character players have literally always existed since the dawn of DnD (ok, maybe not the anime part). I have been playing since the 90s in a country with a very very small community, and we had them back then too.
by Anonymous2 months ago
lol you said hibbies
by Anonymous2 months ago
Can you give an example?
by Anonymous2 months ago
Homebrewing is the way that it used to exclusively be made.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Cave diving
by Agreeable-Log2 months ago
The one hobby that actually needs to be less accessible.
by Miles142 months ago
Unless you're being forced to do it with a group of inexperienced people at gunpoint I don't see how this could ever possibly affect you
by Anonymous2 months ago
Warhammer 40k (actually playing the game that is, not just reading the books and whatnot)
by Anonymous2 months ago
Well they warn you ahead of time 40k is starting price tag
by Anonymous2 months ago
Lmao true
by Anonymous2 months ago
Warhammer 401k
by Anonymous2 months ago
The amount of money I have saved by buying a printer is ridiculous. I bought about 6-7k points for CSM. I have about 4k in points and have bought less than 500 points for my salamanders. No one bats an eye at RTT or GT's.
by Anonymous2 months ago
I say this every time people tout 3d printers as being cheaper. I mean they might be, but the entry level for Warhammer is lower than the entry for 3d printing. Buying a decent resin printer isn't going to cost less than a starter kit for Warhammer. With Combat Patrol and Spearhead, you can easily play for cheaper than a printer. But people say that 4k point games are their only option, which might be true... But that's not the fault of GW. It's like complaining that you're trying to get into racecar driving and F1 costs too much. The REAL benefit of a 3d printer is reducing the size of everything 2.5 times and using cm instead of inches so I can play tiny games of the Old World on my kitchen table.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Oh 100% but I wouldn't have the ridiculous sized army I now have without a printer.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Honestly HATE putting vehicles together. I'm enjoying taking my time putting a knight together though.
by Anonymous2 months ago
It still boggles my mind how expensive Warhammer kits are considering that the buyer has to do all of the actual time consuming work 😅
by Mother_Swan2 months ago
Same for yarn and fancy pens. Can't believe they make me pay so much and then make me actually do the hobby! Last time I looked at how expensive paint was and then the store owner had the audacity to tell me that I had to paint the picture too!
by Anonymous2 months ago
Ahhhh why don't people learn that D&D is just one facet of the whole ttrpg hobby. It's not even a particularly well designed facet. Pathfinder 2e is much more balanced and doesn't put all the onus on the GM to make snap shot decisions all the time like 5e does because it usually has rules for how things work. Or you could play mech ttrpg with LANCER. Or Sci fi with Starfinder. Cyberpunk RED. Traveller. Mutants and Masterminds for some of the freest character creation ever. Want LESS rules more role-playing? There's a million-and-one rules lite ttrpgs out there that can work in any scenario. JUST BRANCH OUT. LEAVE D&D BEHIND YOU HAVE OUTGROWN IT!
by Anonymous2 months ago
Except making the game more accessible through 3D printing or cheaper materials does not in any way affect the player that buys into the most expensive version of that game.
by Anonymous2 months ago
What you're complaining about is the commercialization of your hobby. Not it's accessibility.
by Odd_Suspect_60002 months ago
And nailing 2x4s will magically generate this knowledge? Not everyone has some teacher in their family or friends and if you don't feel like helping then just say nothing and let the nice people step in.
by Anonymous2 months ago
You've clearly never received a letter which wasn't legible!
by deron612 months ago
Skiing as an example. It's a sport/hobby for people with money, as it costs hundreds/thousands seasonally. However, this loser can kick rocks, because pricing people out of hobbies that don't need to be excessively expensive is pretentious and lame.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Get this, OP's example was calligraphy…
by Anonymous2 months ago
that sounds like a text book example of hobby you can start doing for 0 dollars.
by PackageBeneficial2 months ago
And if you do it badly, it affects absolutely no one. JFC 🤦🏻♀️
by Anonymous2 months ago
Um you must study calligraphy at my studio in Japan for three years to get the Curly Wurly Calligraphy TM certificate to be a CERTIFIED member of the calligraphy community.
by Pfefferwilber2 months ago
Well skiing price really depends were you live, i live in canada, skiing wasn't a rich people sports till more recently, mostly because they raised their price to ridiculous amounts these days
by Anonymous2 months ago
I grew up low income in a high skiing area and the most expensive part is affording a pass for the mountain, and some places have cheap hills even if they aren't the most exciting. if you're in an area where it's common you can get used stuff for cheap, just can't be afraid to have 10-15 year old equipment. One of the main hills I went to as a kid still has tickets for two seasons in a row for like $100 total if you buy on a certain day
by Anonymous2 months ago
I'm torn on this one, the main reason skiing/snowboarding is so expensive because of the lift tickets, which have become exorbitantly expensive due to the sheer number of people getting into the sport, and the short winters. Secondhand gear is very easy to obtain if you work an average full-time job. The demand is pricing the average person out while simultaneously making the sport less enjoyable, but increasing the price even more is the only thing that will reduce the crowds.
by Anonymous2 months ago
This is the reason that sports which depend on scarce natural geography (surfing, skiing, climbing) breed the most gatekeepery insufferable enthusiasts
by Camilla652 months ago
I grew up in Southern California, I was on a ski team, and I now live in Boulder Colorado where basically everyone climbs. I can easily say skiers are by far the most insufferable and it's not even close.
by Pagacbrenden2 months ago
You can get a basic startup kit from Delphi Glass, with everything you need to do simple projects (aside from a way to display it, like rings/chains/frames) for $430. Precut project kits from Diamond Tech are $100 with a soldering iron or $25 without (if you happen to already have one).
by PresentationReal1772 months ago
i am only familiar with gunpla and girlpla, so my view might be bias, but I feel like most of the cost is R&D for designing the kit. So, even tho It's overprices from material point of view, it's the design and the engineering that make it, at least not as overpriced.
by Potential_Local_20422 months ago
One of my hobbies is disc golf; for $5 you can get a used disc and show up to the course as almost zero have entry fees. One of my biggest pet peeves is people who ignore every other play group out there and who litter on the course. Playing loud music (Enough to hear a hole away), chucking their discs Willy nilly, not understanding when others are either still on a hole or causing backups for playing too slowly.
by Anonymous2 months ago
That's not a problem of the sport being affordable it's a problem of the owner of the course not enforcing whatever rules or regulations they have
by Anonymous2 months ago
I see less gatekeeping from people IN hobbies than I do people complaining that something isn't accessible/affordable enough. I've not even been knitting a year, and I've seen people complain that a YouTube sweater tutorial only covers one size and you had to buy the written pattern for the other sizes, or the pattern is written out and not charted, or charted and not written out. It's like there is a certain type of person who expects everything to be accessible to everyone at all times.
by strackekristian2 months ago
Maybe something like Blacksmithing? Idk I'm really trying to see where OP is coming from and it's tough. I don't think this opinion is as much unpopular as it is stupid.
by Anonymous2 months ago
It's so discouraging when I'm trying to have a conversation about the gardening strategies I use in different abodes in my house collection when some peasant pipes up about a potted plant in their apartment.
by Christdeckow2 months ago
You should make that a hobby!
by cristianleannon2 months ago
No, only true gate keepers can join
by Anonymous2 months ago
I agree with you except for one tiny setting. Warhammer 40k, please GW, lower the prices, i don't want to go into debt to afford more than a combat patrol
by dhammes2 months ago
I can play football with my mates in the park and it doesn't take away from Messi's genius. This is such a bad take from you
by makenzie362 months ago
they said "not every hobby" meaning some hobbies are exempt such as football and other easy to access hobbies
by Anonymous2 months ago
Making a hobby accessible is ALWAYS good. You don't have to dumb it down to make it accessible, and growing a hobby base is great. The idea that having more people able to do a hobby reduces it's 'soul' or 'depth' is an insane thing to say.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Dumb exemple but souls games gained alot of critique due to it not being accessible (it's too hard for some)
by Anonymous2 months ago
I disagree. I think camping, surfing, and rock climbing have all suffered for accessibility. There is limited space. People ruining shared spaces sucks.
by oharatheresa2 months ago
OP doesn't want the haggard peasantry to cheapen their hobbies
by Anonymous2 months ago
I think it's more determined on what level you are with the hobby. If you're going to a rock gym like my friends do and sometimes a small mt, I don't see an issue. But if you're taking that level of skill and equipment to a more populated site with people who take the hobbie more seriouslly? Yes I see you as the problem.
by Briakuvalis2 months ago
There's a big difference between not being accessible and gatekeeping. If something can be dumbed down in a youtube tutorial so people can get into the hobby? That's amazing, it makes things more accessible and more people can get into the hobby! Some hobbies can't be accessible to everyone though, because of their location or they cant afford the equipment or lifestyles. But... not letting people do something basic because you want to feel special? Yeah that's gatekeeping which is just stupid.
by Federal-Whereas78802 months ago
It's about reducing the barrier for entry. Let people have a chance to try things - it doesn't mean they'll be good at it. Being good at the hobby requires practice and skill (and maybe more money), but there's no harm in making it more accessible to people. Maybe they'll like it and go all-in, maybe not; but they won't find out until they try and they won't try if there are high costs associated with beginner level.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Let rare skills stay rare — that's part of their value. Effectively there aren't any rare skills, there are just too many people out there for any real rarity. This is why so few people can make money making art, singing, acting, playing an instrument. There are far more people who can do those things than there is a market willing to pay for them. Most people successful in those 'skills' are just get lucky.
by Anonymous2 months ago
I probably wouldn't want to participate in a hobby with you anyway!
by ApprehensiveChef18682 months ago
I'm a bit of a house plant hobbyist. I can't tell you how happy it makes me to see plants for sale, going for 15-30$, when a few years ago these plants would have been selling for hundreds or even thousands of dollars. I do love that everyone can get involved.
by Anonymous2 months ago
My one kid is a competitive rock climber. As in traveling to other provinces for competitions. Guess what? She got her start at one of those birthday party fun climbing gyms - with the light up walls and silly themes. As someone else here said "before the skill and determination, comes the training wheels."
by Anonymous2 months ago
It seems like you have a specific hobby in mind. I'm all for a healthy level of gatekeeping within a community but own up to it here. What hobby are you talking about?
by Electrical-Canary6622 months ago
OH NO SOMEONE CAN BUY A CALLIGRAPHY KIT ON AMAZON AND START PRACTCING... it devalues my $500 pen and $2500 collection of boutique inks... The $500 pen and $250 ink exists because people can enter the hobby, get hooked, and buy better gear...
by Anonymous2 months ago
Who cares? If you can't enjoy your hobby because other (less experienced) people might be trying their hand at it, this says a lot about you.
by Geovannigerlach2 months ago
I disagree with the affordability part. Skateboarding for example isn't a widely accessible hobby because it requires time, effort, and some inherent skill to keep your teeth from being violently acquainted with the asphalt, and that's perfectly fine. Showing off your rare and hard-earned skill is part of the fun. If however skateboarding wasn't widely accessible because even an entry level board cost like $7000, then it'd just be a paywall to the hobby, not an inherent part of it that added to the experience in any way, other than bragging you can afford it.
by Anonymous2 months ago
My hobby is creating art pieces on Teslas, it is very expensive and not for everyone
by Whole_Willingness2 months ago
I play guitar. It's a fairly accessible hobby. It's the most versatile instrument there is. But no matter how much or little one spends, it doesn't make them good at it. So I think it depends on the hobby. Personally I do think certain hobbies should be accessible, like boating as other people have said. I've sailed a sailboat. I got lucky as I don't come from a sailboat owing family. But it's not that hard and not bad for the environment, it's just expensive and gate kept.
by Anonymous2 months ago
The soul you preach about in hobbies comes from the mastery of it not money or accessibility.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Sure gate keeper, if that makes you feel special. Actually, I don't care if other people dabble in my hobbies. It takes nothing from me so I couldn't care less.
by Anonymous2 months ago
You can just say you wish it was socially acceptable to gate keep whatever hobby you're into OP.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Having a hobby be more wide spread and making it easier for people to learn is a good thing. I learned how to crochet thanks to youtube tutorials. Im sure i couldve learned it another way too, like having someone show me, but would i have actually done that? Probably not. I also like to draw and i learned a lot from youtube videos and the internet as a whole. Whats so bad about that? I do agree that cheap, low quality starter kits are not it. Most of the time you dont actually need all that as an absolute beginner and you can get higher quality materials for cheaper if you just get the bare minimum. Obviously none of this is going to make you a master of a craft, but thats not the point anyways. And it of course depends on the hobby too. But this kind of mindset just feels elitist. Theres so many crafts that are slowly dying out because nobody is learning them.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Why? If you can make something accessible without fundamentally changing the hobby what reason could you possibly have for not doing so? The soul and nuance doesn't go away because a few people bought an Amazon kit
by Important-Glove2 months ago
Somewhat agree, but also disagree. Also would like to make the point just because you share a hobby with someone doesnt mean you're in it for the same reasons, or that you should be friends. There are often facets to most hobbies that can be improved that make things better for everyone. However theres also people that have the expectation that every hobby is like tv or videogames, and if you cant just pick it up with zero experience or effort applying yourself, that you should instantly be able to enjoy it to the level of seasoned enthusiasts. One of my hobbies requires a culmination of several skills that are hobbies unto themselves. Money can help with some parts but is no shortcut. Yet, you do get people trying to shortcut all the way through with zero effort and minimal spending, without fail they never seem to have good intents in trying to fit in. Its a rather niche and hyper-specific hobby so apologies on being light on details, rather not dox myself.
by Anonymous2 months ago
They aren't.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Hockey is known as one of the highest floor hobbies compared to other sports with lower floors and we can all acknowledge how talented many of these athletes are. It should stay that way, even if it's known as one for the privileged.
by GreenReplacement2 months ago
Is gatekeeping a valid opinion? 🤔
by heidenreichmari2 months ago
I mean firstly I'd say anybody has a right to pursue any skill. Why would you want to gatekeep random skills? Don't be a karen. Secondly, I'd argue that every skill has a learning curve. Making the beginning of the curve more approachable doesn't make the people toward the end of the curve any less impressive. If anything it makes it more clear that it is impressive just how talented someone is at the height of that skill because the beginners are even further from it.
by Anonymous2 months ago
If I understand correctly, you would like to keep hobbies as simple or as complicated as they are. Works for me honestly!
by Ernserbrice2 months ago
Mmmh, from they few hobbies I have, the only thing that gets more accessible is the starting point. Cheap drones for example are getting cheaper and cheaper, you can get very good value on 2nd hand. But that‘s the deal with most hobbies, 2nd hand market is p2p mostly so companies are kinda pressured to pump-out cheaper products to actually sell something
by Capable-Customer58592 months ago
Yup. Gatekeeping to keep the "normies" out helps preserve the integrity of it. Often times people outside the hobby will try to barge in and demand things change to suit them, rather than walking away and understanding it's not for them.
by Anonymous2 months ago
If I'm deep into a complicated hobby, I know it can be daunting to get started into it but gets much more fun with practice. I don't see anything wrong with encouraging people, but I can totally imagine some BS marketing around some dumbed down product emulating a complicated hobby. That I don't like, and I hope we as consumers wouldn't accept being patronized like that
by Anonymous2 months ago
I will never play golf because it is for pretentious richies
by Anonymous2 months ago
I can't imagine being upset about something being accessible to a wider range of people.
by Anonymous2 months ago
Agreed. I'm into many mountain based outdoor activities. There is, and should be, barriers to entry. There's the fitness aspect, which automatically excludes many folks. People can easily get in over their heads emulating what they see others doing, putting themselves in significant danger. People often don't know what they're getting into, and nature is unforgiving. With proper training and experience, that risk can be reduced. There's also the damage overenthusiastic people might not know they're doing. Alpine environments are easily damaged, harming the reason people want to participate in those hobbies, reducing the experience for others, and possibly leading to stricter regulations.
by runolfsdottired2 months ago
Which hobby did a poor kid best you at
by Anonymous2 months ago
Isn't just gatekeeping ?
by elzabuckridge2 months ago
Is your hobby gate keeping?
by toyphoebe2 months ago
that would be a good way to make your hobby completely obsolete and forgotten within a couple decades.
by clementtromp2 months ago
They don't need to be affordable, but they need to be welcoming to anyone who wants to engage with them
by InvestigatorMany57552 months ago
I can agree with some things for sure. Soccer is one that has been gaining a ton of interest from adults lately. I'm a big soccer player, and I have a group that plays pick up usually about 5 times a week. We often will have random people come up and try to join our game. Our group is pretty high skilled players and someone that is just getting in to it ruins the game for everyone else. I am happy to see people getting in to the sport and they absolutely should, but as a beginner, you need to try and play with other beginners, and not try and jump in with seasoned vets.
by alycia942 months ago
Whatever man. Billionares have RUINED my hobby of collecting 100-200 ft yachts I remember from childhood. They want to buy them all up and stick them at docks. Boats are meant to be driven!
by Anonymous2 months ago
What hobby do you have in mind, OP, and how do you feel it's been dumbed down?
by Dangerous-Buyer-44002 months ago
Gatekeeping to a reasonable degree is how to keep a hobby alive tbqh.
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