+31 The original pride flag was aesthetically amazing. The current pride flag (with the inset trident) is aesthetically horrendous. amirite?

by Maximum-Ask6974 5 days ago

🏳️‍🌈

by Nasir04 5 days ago

I'm not part of the queer community but I've got friends who are so I just asked them. Several groups that are supposed to be included still experience discrimination within the queer community by an obnoxious minority. In opposition to that, flags were made to explicitly include them, as the implicit inclusion clearly wasn't sufficient. Which makes a lot of sense imo. What still doesn't make sense to me, though, is the use of that flag here in Europe. The explicit inclusion of north american indigenous peoples is just confusing.

by Jamirbahringer 5 days ago

When you explicitly include people, you are at the same time explicitly excluding everyone else. The issue of discrimination isn't a flag problem, it a social one. The 🏳️‍🌈 flag is supposed to include everyone not straight and part of LGBTQ+. (The only exception is the trans flag imo because they have obvious unique differences and experiences to cis) For example, the 🇨🇦 flag represents all Canadians. You wouldn't have a national flag like that representing something different for all ten provinces and three territories, it would be hideous.

by Anonymous 5 days ago

Explicitly including people does not mean you are explicitly excluding others. At all

by Beckerroy 5 days ago

There is meaning in omission, though. Even if it's not intending to be exclusionary, saying that "we especially include this, this, and this group" has the effect of making people outside of those groups feel not as integrated/in belonging. Whether or not we want people to grow a thicker skin, we can debate.

by Anonymous 5 days ago

It's the same debate on the phrase "black lives matter" People take offense to it because they think it means "other lives don't matter" and that's just their own projection. I think my friend Bobby is important and I want people to know that. It does not mean I think other people are not important.

by Beckerroy 5 days ago

There's a lot involved with Black Lives Matter that makes it not very comparable. No one saying "what about white people" really cares, they just don't like BLM and want to find a way to poke holes. I think BIPOC is a much better example. It takes multiple groups that technically got most of their historical oppression from the same source, but are still different from each other, for some reason excluding the "foreign" races in there. There's just a massive difference between a movement that advocates for one group and a movement that advocates for several, because one movement is saying that they can't afford to focus messaging on ANY other group, and the other movement is saying that they can't afford to focus on your group specifically.

by Defiant-Schedule 5 days ago

BLM is kinda different because people take offense to it specifically because it's something positive about black people tbh.

by Anonymous 5 days ago

The 🏳️‍🌈 flag is explicitly including LGBTQ people and explicitly excluding straight people. The 🇨🇦 flag is explicitly including Canadians and explicitly excluding non-Canadians. The UN 🇺🇳 flag explicitly includes countries in the UN and excludes countries not in the UN.

by Anonymous 5 days ago

The rainbow flag includes allies so the only people its really excluding are bigots

by Anonymous 5 days ago

Yeah I see it more as a flag of solidarity than anything else. Some straight owned businesses use it to identify as a safe space of lgbtq people. I much prefer the original 🏳️‍🌈 flag and consider it all encompassing, but with the other flags being within it (like how US states have their own flags but still fly the country's flag too).

by Anonymous 5 days ago

Id like to feel that way too but gay people explicity targeted trans, bi, ace and queer people to not feel welcome for a very long time some alot even still do in fear the acceptance they have will be ruined if they include others. I wish it wasnt that way but its the reality of the situation

by Anonymous 5 days ago

The them you are talking about is gay people since its conception it only served the gays only gained them acceptance and as soon as they got it they excluded everyone else that you are claiming was included. Progress flag was made because it was necessary

by Anonymous 5 days ago

The only exception is the trans flag imo because they have obvious unique differences and experiences to cis) Well no, each group gets their own flag. Bisexuals, asexuals, lesbians etc all have a flag. Each community having it's own flag that all plays back in to the rainbow aesthetic is brilliant! Just don't add those explicit representations to the pride flag. Because it's no issue if demisexuals decide they want their own flag separate from asexuals, and aroaces decide they also want one. But adding all that representation into one flag becomes pretty messy pretty quickly.

by mauricio48 5 days ago

I am queer and have a very large social circle of predominantly queer people and allies. I come from a (literal) cult background of Christian fundamentalists The only people I have ever heard bash the progress pride flag irl are bad faith right wing actors. This is one of those online discourse things unfortunately and so-called centrists love it as a way to take shots at the community while appearing as allies

by Plastic-Science-9576 5 days ago

Wow do you have any crazy cult stories? Sorry if inappropriate. Was it hard to escape?

by Charlesabshire 5 days ago

You Euros can just pretend it's for the Basque 🤷‍♂️

by Anonymous 5 days ago

I wouldn't say it's not unpopular. I would say it's not uncommon.

by Anonymous 5 days ago

And maby im just dumb, but can someone explain to me why ethnic minorities and pride became mixed up? Like why did pride just start absorbing other progressive issues? Seems really dumb to me

by Expensive_Title_8067 5 days ago

I don't understand why the pride flag started including race. I felt like it was the only thing representing people's different sexuality's. Now it's to broad and generic.

by Anonymous 5 days ago

I've been canceled in real life for saying this. It is a controversial opinion in real life anyways.

by Adelbertgoldner 5 days ago

Bud if you're arguing with someone about the design of any flag they are gonna be too far into whatever that flag represents to hear even the most kindhearted of criticisms. Reasonable people won't care about graphic design

by Anonymous 5 days ago

So when everyone else say their opinion I should just keep quiet? That is the core of cancelling culture that only certain opinions are allowed. You can also share an opinion without arguing.

by Adelbertgoldner 5 days ago

I didn't know how fast the situation would escalate otherwise I would have kept quiet. To be forced to keep quiet is also canceling culture (It's not like I'm talking about a singular person)

by Adelbertgoldner 5 days ago

You have to be well known to be cancelled. Otherwise it's just people disagreeing with you.

by Vegetable_Cancel 5 days ago

How do you get cancelled in real life?

by Anonymous 5 days ago

Did you lose your job? Otherwise you weren't cancelled. People just disagree with you.

by hayesansel 5 days ago

I was extremely close to lose my job but backtracked and apologized. I wasn't well received afterwards and quit soon after. You can be cancelled without losing your job though.

by Adelbertgoldner 5 days ago

It's not about disagreeing. It's about having inappropriate conversations at work that probably make your coworkers uncomfortable. If you had these opinions on a personal forum and got penalized, that'd be cancelling. Not having inappropriate conversations at work.

by hayesansel 5 days ago

You're being pedantic and obnoxious.

by Neat_Medicine_6854 5 days ago

No, I just understand that words have meaning.

by hayesansel 5 days ago

There's a great deal of irony in you saying you prefer the original and then putting the emoji which is very much not the original

by doyle20 4 days ago

I mean it's the closest thing to the original and most widespread since the other 2 extra colors were more expensive and hard to find.

by Eastersporer 4 days ago

What about going back to the original 8 stripe version with pink and turquoise?

by Cierrarice 4 days ago

I'm imagining a guy who really hates the people these flags represent but loves flag design so much he can't keep his praise to himself. Draw your own conclusions about his history

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Ethnic minorities? I've never heard of that.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I agree. The whole point of a rainbow is that it represented everyone. There was no one specified and meant no one left out.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Its not about agreeing. Thats the point lol.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Haha you're absolutely right

by marilieparisian 4 days ago

It's like when people started pushing BIPOC instead of POC. Some people apparently think they're more equal than others

by Key-Pin1193 4 days ago

I still keep thinking that refers to bisexual people of colour.

by torpcleve 4 days ago

Is it not?

by Anonymous 4 days ago

It stands for black, indigenous, and people of color. So it's literally a "we're more important here" signal. The defenders will claim it's made because black and indigenous people received extra harm in the US, but that being true (assuming we accept things like the racism against east Asians during the early years of the US and during WWII wouldn't qualify them for a letter in this framework) it adds a distinction where none is needed and elevates groups where none is needed. As much as I hate to say it, it's a literal case of the virtue signaling that conservatives try to make caricatures of.

by Key-Pin1193 4 days ago

I can't tell you how much I hate the term POC and BIPOC. It's an incredibly lazy way for people to pretend to care about social issues while grouping anyone who isn't white under one banner. It leaves no room for nuance and treats us all like we're back in Jim Crow.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

It's also redundant. Black is part of POC.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

It's not redundant it was supposed to elevate black people above all other POC. The term became popular during Covid when the Asian hate became a thing. And some in the community felt that it was unfair how much attention that issue was getting.

by Soggy_Plum 4 days ago

There should be a bumpy flakey stripe added, for the most excluded group of all... Lepers

by Anonymous 4 days ago

The sentiment was there, but could have been worded a lot better and still have the same message oof

by Anonymous 4 days ago

The initial black/brown stripes (not as a chevron, the 8 stripes) were added specifically in Philadelphia in reaction to racist incidents in the city's Gayborhood. Still feels a little surreal everyone else picked it up and ran with it. I also grew up in Texas, so it feels a little like how everyone uses Juneteenth now. Like we specifically have this thing because we sucked at equality, but if y'all feel like you suck too ok I guess?

by Ornery-Subject 4 days ago

If i had to guess its probably because you dont literally see brown or black in a rainbow and so people felt like they had to wedge that in

by Klingola 4 days ago

"ADHD abomination" is a great descriptor IMO!

by Maximum-Ask6974 4 days ago

That's exactly how I see it - they are visually not an integral part of the flag, they are an interruption. From a purely design standpoint, they do the exact opposite of what is intended. It's just bad design

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Yeah its making it less inclusive. Cause why is it giving some identities more visibility than the others? The og is meant to represent everyone already

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Because those identities were experiencing discrimination within the community

by Empty-Quantity 4 days ago

The rainbow flag is used to demonstrate that this place is accepting of queer people. When they discriminated against people of color, those queer people of color started places that were accepting of all people. To demonstrate this, they hung up a flag that demonstrated that.

by Empty-Quantity 4 days ago

To me it looks like the wedge is creeping up to cover all of the others.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I did not see that coming.

by Dangerous-Vanilla 4 days ago

I see what you almost did there

by Anonymous 4 days ago

The Aryan pride flag

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Pretty sure it was actually made by 4chan specifically for that.

by Mean-Refrigerator 4 days ago

Probably, but why make it easy for them?

by RequirementOk9446 4 days ago

It took me frighteningly (in this case, maybe reassuringly?) long to notice.

by Acrobatic_Trip 4 days ago

This can't be real… right?

by Nice-Championship102 4 days ago

The rainbow at least had an elegant simplicity in it's meaning, representing everything figuratively. Giving everything it's own stripe and then constantly adding pieces makes the whole thing extremely tacky. And that pic, It's a joke that works on many levels. I mean, a rainbow really is just white light being refracted. And, even without the 4x arrangement, the flag is virtually everywhere now, propaganda in it's own reicht. Not that I like the rainbow flag. I just never liked rainbows. You can have a couple contrasting colors on flags, a great many countries do 2 or 3 stripes, for example. Most of them look okay if you ignore various tastes in seals(U.S. states also have a lot of seals that look terrible on a flag). But multiple stripes all together hitting the major rainbow colors....that's the stuff of cartoons, kindergarten rooms, the circus, and eating too much candy(eg skittles). Visually unappealing to many adults. Garish and unsettling, to me. Blech.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Yeah the rainbow looks better. The current one is just missing the point

by Karianedooley 4 days ago

People irl may feel tepid to go against the majority and say that don't like it. Also, what do they know about good flag design? Popular doesn't also mean good

by hillsnorris 4 days ago

100% agree. The rainbow represented all colors. Colors and shapes were unnecessary to add and made it so ugly.

by Individual-Lab 4 days ago

I honestly agree I get that flags are supposed to be symbolic to a degree but we don't need to just keep adding like colored bands for every single group we suddenly decide is going to be roped into the overall pride umbrella I feel like the whole point of the rainbow was that it covered essentially the entire color spectrum and was supposed to be symbolic of including essentially everyone in the spectrum of LGBT We didn't need to make more changes to it and we certainly did not need to start making like individual flags for each gender and sexuality and crap like that Just the single rainbow flag was perfectly fine

by Anonymous 4 days ago

The changes were made in response to the original flag not being used in an inclusive way

by Empty-Quantity 4 days ago

Yeah it was used harmfully by gay people to exclude trans, bi, ace, and queer people. Maybe they could feel accepted under the rainbow flag if the gays didnt exclude them soon as they got a litte bit of acceptance for themselves

by Anonymous 4 days ago

My trans family member was appalled when I expressed the same sentiment. I was called mean names for it. Dude it's just not a good looking flag and the rainbow was better. I'm an ally all day long but I'm flying the other one. It's like being called anti-Semitic when expressing displeasure toward Israeli foreign policy.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Agreed. The original flag was designed to be all encompassing. It's literally a flag of a spectrum. All are embraced. None are excluded, regardless of where or who you are. But no, some childish weenie balled their fists and stamped their feet because they weren't 'seen'. The world isn't all about you sweetheart.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Thats what happens when gay people get a little bit of acceptance and in fear of losing that they exclude other groups who should have been a part of that original acceptance

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Idk anyone who likes it over the rainbow one

by shayna10 4 days ago

I do. Although admittedly the progress one and not the intersection inclusive progress one. I find the white on the edge helps orient me mentally.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

My straight neighbor loves it. She has one hanging off of her house. 😂

by zoievonrueden 4 days ago

I think what happened is some people started taking the rainbow exclusively as Homosexual

by AgreeableTrash 4 days ago

which pride flag are you talking about?

by Anonymous 4 days ago

This is a valid point. At the local pride event last month they had a booth set up by the local library and I took the opportunity to borrow a few children's picture books including a couple about Harvey Milk and the actual original first flag which then included pink and turquoise, and another book entirely about ALL of the flags of pride, the colours, and their meaning.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

i wasn't making a point i was asking a genuine question cus i have no idea what pride flag they're talking about

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I don't think this opinion is unpopular. I don't understand why it got altered. The original was fine and represented everyone. When the flag changed and all these random pronouns started being popular, that's when I really retreated away from the community. It became obnoxious.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

It already included everyone. The rainbow is a powerful statement that 'this natural phenomenon represents us'. Covering it in more and more micro-labels doesn't help anyone.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

It may have been meant for everyone but it only served the gays. People in the community activley excluded others in fear they would lose what little acceptance they were getting and people from the outside looking in only ever saw it as representing gay people.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I think everyone agrees about this except for some confused queer people who see their sexuality as their entire personal identity.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

That's a bad generalization. The progress flag was made to make a statement of intent. "No one left behind" explicitly advocating for trans people is important when some bad actors in the community are trying to cut them off (or psy ops like the LGB alliance who are composed of primarily straight people) Bipoc lines were added because the queer community has a racism problem and it was a statement of intent against that. Generally I don't like how the progress flag looks compared to the traditional queer flag but the intent and political statement is more important than the aesthetic sensibilities.

by Specialist-Fee 4 days ago

I feel the progress flag is just making the opposite Statement than its supposed to. The rainbow is already representing everyone and by separately adding the trans flag to it, it makes it look like trans people are different from everyone and they deserve to be seen more than everyone else

by Anonymous 4 days ago

The problem was that the rainbow flag was not being used to include everybody

by Empty-Quantity 4 days ago

I like it and I'm not queer. I just think it looks good personally.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I just like chevrons

by Trecummings 4 days ago

💯

by Anonymous 4 days ago

i believe the triangle with the trans and poc colours was made to highlight that those groups in particular face more harassment currently, and to show more support to those communities

by Viviane33 4 days ago

The ‘progress flag' is also privately trademarked. You cannot buy one without a cut going to the guy who created it. As opposed to the old one that is not owned by anyone.

by Sea_Entertainer_9667 4 days ago

I agree 1000000000000%

by Anonymous 4 days ago

It is rather busy I'll agree.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I must be out of the loop is it not a rainbow anymore?

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Its still a rainbow theres just a few more colors added to represent people in the community that where more than often excluded and pushed out

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Yup I have no idea why black and brown was shoe horned into the flag as if the original flag didn't represent all lgbt lmao

by Deep_Potato_8348 4 days ago

The change is a symbolic representation of what has happened in the broader LGBT community, which was once a community known for being sophisticated, in-shape, well dressed, and with great taste. I feel the community now has been tumblr-ized starting in the 2010s and is now associated more with having bright badly dyed hair, walking around with a cane despite not needing one at age 20, graphic anime shirts, and every possible neurodivergent disorder. It's a shame because it reinforces the offensive idea of LGBT people as mentally ill. Starting in the 2010s, we also started to abolish the idea of gatekeeping communities however, and I think we are seeing now how important gatekeeping can be to the focus and relevance of a movement.

by Expensive_Reach_9817 4 days ago

It looks gay for a reason

by Anonymous 4 days ago

there is this gay canadian yter called jj who explores vexicology, and i think that he had a valid point when he said that the complexicity and ever growing number of diffrent flags representing diffrent peoples is reflective of the LGBTQ+ community and how varied it is. And the flags are like a beutiful chaos. I do agree though that the rainbow flag should be still used as its simply more uniting the cause, but hey im not part of that community so whatever they feel like is the best representation should be the flag.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Forced… yup

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Personally, I just kinda like the look of chevrons

by Trecummings 4 days ago

how do you sell more if you don't update the design?

by Anonymous 4 days ago

It's almost like we're all individuals and no two identities are the same. 😮 If only there were a country founded upon such principles…

by Sensitive-Pen 4 days ago

This isn't unpopular, I'm one of the few who like it but I have to agree that aesthetically it's not as good as the original. My liking of it comes from it being the one I put in my room when I first came out and had no one. I watched people stomp on it and cut out the trans and black and brown stripes at protests against us. So it's just the one I feel the deeper connection to. Vexilogically, the original is the better one tho hands down.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

You're right but Pride should not be led by aesthetics

by Anonymous 4 days ago

There's a trident now? Is this to represent Mr. Nimbus or something?

by Anonymous 4 days ago

It's called a chevron, if you want the proper vexillological term.

by Macibeahan 4 days ago

As someone who has worked with graphic design, yeah, It's just not a good design.

by Acceptable-Split 4 days ago

Wasn't it designed by a homophobic Texas college student and he got it registered and had large company's pay to use it

by Life_Anything3759 4 days ago

I fly the flag not because it's aesthetically pleasing, but rather is a political statement. And the current one better align with what I want to express.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Fact. By trying to be more inclusive, they just made it specific, and it's a huge eyesore.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

The original pride flag is not the one you're thinking of. The real original had 8 colors including pink and cyan.

by Sufficient_Tune 4 days ago

Your comparison to country flags is something but, extremely flawed. Do you know just how many flags there are to represent all sexual and gender identities? It is literally not possible to do what you're describing without leaving many group out or making the thing look hideous Also. We already have a flag thst includes all, it's called the rainbow flag. A rainbow covers the entire spectrum of colour and light and therefore leaves no one out without any effort at all

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Yep, I'm well aware. Personally, I like the regular rainbow flag. It signifies universal pride without paying specific attention to specific communities

by shieldspasquale 4 days ago

I love the rainbow flag best but appreciate the reasons behind the redesign. I would personally prefer a "quilt" look made up of many flags over the current lgbtq diversity flag.

by bennyharvey 4 days ago

a common symbol that includes everyone....like hmmm, let me think...a RAINBOW?

by Jamie82 4 days ago

If we're going along those lines, a white flag is a great inclusive flag too! But yeah, I personally like the regular rainbow flag because it signifies diversity well enough, hinting at stuff across a spectrum of humanity. Some see the individual colours as specific identities, and those are the people pushing for more colours/shapes in the flag. Nothing wrong with that ofc, since everyone views things differently. There's a sizable chunk who think my country's (Singapore) flag is Islamic, even though the flag was specifically designed to represent harmony and multiple cultures without singling out a specific group. I still like the original flag because it's a really well done design.

by shieldspasquale 4 days ago

It's definitely ugly, but I can understand why it was made, considering even among queer folks there is transphobia, racism, etc. For as example as a trans person I still can't be certain I am welcome or safe if I see a default rainbow flag. Could've been designed better though for sure. I don't like that we're just tacking more and more things onto it, way too busy

by Nearby-Papaya 4 days ago

At the end of the day I'll use whatever flag you ask me too... But if it were up to me the rainbow flag already includes everyone.

by Hillsansel 4 days ago

Counterpoint: it pisses a lot of bigots off which is hilarious

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I keep hearing more and more LGB getting sick of the T. What is going om?

by ZealousidealHat3408 4 days ago

There's also historically been a rift between the LGs and the Bs. There's way too much infighting, we just all gotta look after each other. Be a good person. Ezpz. Well, not for everyone I guess.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I don't understand why we cannot get along. I've personally seen a lot of people go after bi folks like me and it's mostly lesbians. Meanwhile gays and lesbians used to not get along at all and for some reason almost everyone hated trans people. Asexual and aromantic people still get borderline get kicked out of community spaces since they're "not queer enough" You'd think we'd focus on welcoming and getting along instead of being just as bad as those who hate us.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I think to some degree it's a case of the bullied becoming the bully. I know that's reducing it way down, but the shoe fits. Hurt people hurt people sometimes.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Everyone has different "reasons" for their hate but I partially agree. It seems like certain groups feel like they have the right to bully others because they historically had it worse. Being part of the community isn't a dick measuring contest of oppression.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

Yeah, hard agree. That's what I was trying to get at, but you put it way better than me.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

What you're talking about is mostly sceen online with people who aren't actually LGBTQ. Overarchingly the LGBTQ Community supports Trans people.

by eleanore93 3 days ago

There has always been a big split in the queer community between those that want to be normal and those that want to redefine what normal means. The latter tends to supports gay marriage, adoption, and anti-discrimination laws, the former tends to want to remove gender markers on government forms, they tend to embrace being visibly queer and want to encourage others to question everything they know about orientation and gender. Most people are somewhere in the middle of course but there has always been tension between the extremes. Nowadays LGBs tend to be the more conservative crowd that are happy with what we have, while TQ+ tends to be in the more radical camp. More radical LGBs are much more likely to ID as nonbinary and so also become part of the T, meanwhile more conservative trans people by definition tend to blend in and usually prefer to be unnoticed.

by Sea_Entertainer_9667 3 days ago

Real ones support the T. Some people say that Trans people don't belong in the "club" because the community is about sexuality, and gender identity is a separate issue. Many of us feel that they DO belong though, because it's not about defining their identity, but coming together when we face very similar issues. The issues that trans people face today are basically the exact same ones that gay people faced 20 years ago (and still face in many areas to this day). Therefore, they belong. I also think that anyone who can face discrimination, and then turn around and discriminate against someone else, is worse than the original bigots in the first place.

by Anonymous 3 days ago