The word "umami" is unnecessary, and is used because it's exotic and Japanese, not because it's a useful word. amirite?

Have you ever tasted pure MSG? I don't think it tastes how you think it tastes

by Bashirianarmand 4 days ago

Fu-yoh!

by Leonie55 4 days ago

I think they mean anyone who's eaten food with MSG knows what it tastes like

by Beneficial_Way 4 days ago

And I know what aquamarine looks like, but I still need a word to call it to explain it to someone else. Umami is a solid word that does this. Savory means more than one thing now, although you certainly can use it as a synonym. Umami just means umami, at least to an English speaker.

by Anonymous 4 days ago

I like it lol

by Exotic_Solution7445 4 days ago

I mean, it tastes like salt with a bit of a citrus acid like component. At least to me it wasn't extremely different to anything else that's savory.

by Ok-Brother 3 days ago

Huh, I think it tastes a lot better than salt+citrus. Though growing up, I spoke a lot of mandarin at home and so the taste of salt and the taste of msg has always been differentiated. For those curious, it's 鹹 for salty and 鮮 for savory

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Typically when another culture discovers/identifies/invents something we just use their word for it. Do shampoo, algebra, tsunami, spaghetti, or mosquito sound like English words to you? Saying "umami" and "savory" can be used interchangeably is like saying "tsunami" and "big wave" can be used interchangeably. Like it's kind of true but you lose all the context and specificity of the original term.

by Resident_Log_4343 3 days ago

TIL Shampoo has roots in Hindi. I assumed it was a nonsense little word made up when someone decided to name it for the first time

by Positive-Split 3 days ago

I assumed it was because they couldn't find any real poo. I'll see myself out.

by Okunevawerner 3 days ago

You win the internet today!

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Yeah, sounds like that old name brand that got associated with the product. Like Hoover, Kleenex, Band-aid, Velcro or Taser.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

I think this is the best counterargument. Thanks for not being a dick about it.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

It's a legit term, but you're also right that people love using it to sound sophisticated

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Like pronouncing parmeggiano

by BusZealousideal 3 days ago

Moo tsa rell

by Anonymous 3 days ago

M U T T Z

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Parmeesian

by Janice34 3 days ago

Cuisine, bistro, charcuterie, crudités, hors d'oeuvres, maitre d, soup de jour for just French and just food related words. This take is insane. Every language has loan words.

by Ok-Value2840 3 days ago

French > English is kind of a special case

by jayson24 3 days ago

But tsunami and big wave aren't full synonyms. All tsunamis are big waves but not all big waves are tsunamis. Assuming OP said correct things, sounds like umami and savory are perfect synonyms. I'd agree with what you said if we didn't already have the word savory, and OP was complaining just about the fact that it's a foreign word.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Smallest recorded tsunami was about a foot

by rubenwitting 3 days ago

No I wasn't. I'm complaining that it's redundant.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Did umami come before savory? It feels like "umami" entered use in English in the past ~20 years. Did the Japanese identify the characteristic flavor before anyone else? (I realize msg is attributed to them, but that's not what I'm asking)

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Is it not partially because the original research was conducted in Japan? Many loanwords come from other cultures that pioneered a concept first.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Why didn't anyone tell the researchers not to orientalize themselves?! lmao

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Also a Japanese scientist was the first to isolate pure msg

by jalongottlieb 3 days ago

Yes, Japanese scientists spent decades researching and defining this taste, which eventually led to it being accepted as one of the basic flavours. That's why the word is Japanese.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

That's why we use the word Loot!

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Except savoriness doesn't mean it's savory. It's a direct translation of the french word "savoureux" which means tasty/flavorful. I believe it's an old fashioned type of word not much in use except in cooking circles So you're doubly wrong here I just realized by way of double translation to my language that savoriness is in fact the direct translation of umami describing a deep rich flavorful taste

by isabel77 3 days ago

"savoureux" which means tasty/flavorful 旨味 literally means "tasty flavor." So you're kinda just defending OP's point. The real catch is that "umami" is a buzzword coined to sell Ajinomoto brand MSG chemical seasoning. Yeah, the actual Japanese term for MSG is just "chemical seasoning."

by Either_Mixture786 3 days ago

This isn't an unpopular opinion it is just straight up factually incorrect.

by Ubaldo55 3 days ago

I have an unpopular opinion, pi is exactly 3

by reyesleffler 3 days ago

Your evidence being?

by Anonymous 3 days ago

There are thousands of savory foods with no umami. They are not synonyms even by your own "source".

by Anonymous 3 days ago

If there are only 5 flavors then what else would it be? A food wouldn't be described as "savory" if it fit into any of the other 4 flavors that aren't umami.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Foods are usually described as "savory" in one of two ways: because it's "tasty" (the original meaning; "savor" just derives from the Latin word that means "to taste"), or to specify that it's salty rather than sweet.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

If something was salty then people would call it salty. People generally use "savory" as a catch-all term for something that isn't clearly sweet, sour, salty, or bitter. Not saying that is correct, but typically when someone calls a food "savory" it means it is mostly umami.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Yeah this is it. All things that are umami are savory but not all savory things are umami

by Bashirianarmand 3 days ago

It's a Japanese word. Invented by a Japanese chemist. Umami was first scientifically identified in 1908 by Kikunae Ikeda,[33][34] a professor of the Tokyo Imperial University.

by Professional-Hat 3 days ago

Was umami flavor or umami taste receptors discovered? I figure people have been referring to savory and meaty flavors for a long time before umami taste receptors were discovered

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Savory is an English word. Evolved from ancient Latin. You are actually proving OPs point. We don't need a Japanese word (except to sound impressive)

by Extension-Dot7395 3 days ago

Not true, savory is a quality of the dish. Umami is a description of a specific property of the dish.

by External-Western-199 3 days ago

Its just a silly argument. All languages borrow naturally fron others for many reasons including but not limited to wanting to sound impressive. English is 40% french if i recal correctly even though many if those words had english equivalents that could have been used. Exchange just happens.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Wait til you learn about Latin

by Content_Pain4855 3 days ago

It appears you don't understand umami....

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Well, you're wrong, but ok.

by noemie16 3 days ago

So far I agree with it being unnecessary, but haven't paid attention to the reason. Chefs, is the venn diagram of savory foods and umami foods a perfect circle?

by Intelligent-Ear-6968 3 days ago

I'm not a chef, but no. A piece of garlic is savory. A piece of mushroom is umami. There's a big difference.

by Actual-Raccoon-3336 3 days ago

It it the tanginess versus the earthiness that makes the difference? I can't ever tell why something is in once category or the other

by Jayceeskiles 3 days ago

It literally means "meaty." It's the reason pure lard and pork don't taste identical. It's not that complicated.

by keagan62 3 days ago

Getting uppity like this when responding to someone completely unprompted is wild.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

That's how I see it, but I'm not an expert. I think you taste umami more in the back/center of your tongue whereas you taste savory more at the tip and sides. Just a guess.

by Actual-Raccoon-3336 3 days ago

The tongue doesn't have "taste-regions".

by Stock-Row9256 3 days ago

I'm still upset that we were all taught this in school and it was never true.

by dane55 3 days ago

Oh come on, really? I just saw a graphic of this a few weeks ago.

by Actual-Raccoon-3336 3 days ago

Thanks!

by Intelligent-Ear-6968 3 days ago

Absolutely not. Savoury is used broadly to describe any dishes that are not sweet. Umami is one of the five basic flavours. There are sweet foods that are umami (think miso caramel) and there are savoury foods that are not umami (think saltines).

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Straight from this article: There is no English equivalent to umami; however, some close descriptions are "meaty", "savory", and "broth-like".

by Anonymous 3 days ago

My man please read what your quoting here, it's saying English is close but not all the way there. It doesn't have all the nuance. Close but no cigar

by Anonymous 3 days ago

There is one. It's in the first sentence of the article. It's the word "savoriness."

by Anonymous 3 days ago

There's one out of three you picked and went with that, for reasons.

by Leonie55 3 days ago

It is literally not equivalent; it is the closest word, but they don't mean the same thing, which is why scientists and chefs use the more precise word. As the article points out. You are making the fact that you don't seem capable of researching beyond Wikipedia or reading beyond a single sentence everyone else's problem.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

No. Umami is our taste receptors detecting certain amino acids. There is a big overlap but not exactly the same. Your own reference says "there is no English equivalent to umani"

by Stan94 3 days ago

on wikipedia....

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Even in the article, "scientists consider umami to be a distinct taste". So yes, by definition a distinct taste means the word umami is necessary. OP is just not understanding taste receptors vs a general description of flavor

by Anonymous 3 days ago

A lot of overlap but not a perfect circle. The umami of green tea is a good example. Would you call that savory?

by Uharris 3 days ago

Says who? It's still broadly used in the UK. Everything is either sweet or savoury. If I fancy something savory I might grab some salty pretzels or a piece of cheese.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

I would say that it doesn't seem to be used outside the context of stuff food nerds call umami in NY West coast Canadian dialect.

by Major_Form_7923 3 days ago

Still one of my favourite quotes. If I were a linguist, I'd get it tattooed on my forehead.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Well put. I have no problem with using the word , I just don't think there's a meaningful distinction between it and "savory."

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Then how do you explain the existence of savoury foods that are not umami? You have literally not made an argument here.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Which savory foods are not umami?

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Plain salted pasta, steamed broccoli, celery, saltine crackers. You know you could just look up a list of foods that are umami and think about whether you know of any foods that are not on that list but are also not dessert.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

I don't even think those foods are considered savory. More salty than anything

by Beneficial_Way 3 days ago

While salt and spice is a big part of it, savory doesn't include all salty/spicy foods. The definition has been narrowing over time, and isn't just a catch-all for "things not sweet" like it used to be. Depends on location though. There's a lot more overlap with umami currently than there used to be

by Beneficial_Way 3 days ago

Of course it doesn't include all salty or spicy foods; it also doesn't include all umami foods. It does include all salty, spicy, and umami foods that are not sweet. That's the entire point. The definition has only been "narrowing" in response to the discovery and acceptance of umami, which means that narrowing it is unnecessary; we already have a better word for this thing.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

旨味 translates to "delicious taste", not savoury.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Savory does not mean umami..... Many times they overlap. but they are different. (most) Umami is savory but not all savory is umami.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

You can have savory food that doesn't have MSG in it. That's the problem with calling MSG "savoryness".

by humbertomoscisk 3 days ago

Better get rid of other synonyms while we're at it.

by nehabrakus 3 days ago

Savoriness sounds clumsy to me. And I don't recall anyone ever using it, even before umami became commonly used. And savory is used to describe any food that isn't sweet, regardless of whether it actually has the flavor we're talking about. Umami filled a hole.

by roberto48 3 days ago

it actually perfectly describes something nothing else can, (as concisely).

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Savory does the job just fine, considering umami translates to savoriness.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

people use umami because that's what the japanese scientist who discovered the taste coined it. umami was also not a japanese word until 1908, but is a neologism from the japanese word for delicious that was taken as a loan word in english because we also don't have an exact term to describe the sensation of umami, besides umami. also umami is literally one of the five basic tastes, where as savory/savoriness is is just an adjective that can be used to describe any non-sweet flavour. this isn't an unpopular opinion, because it isn't even an opinion. you are just objectively wrong about science and language and are doubling down on it. 😭

by Anonymous 3 days ago

If I say that something is savory, it's the same thing as saying it's umami. Umami translates to savoriness. You are wrong.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

No

by Anonymous 3 days ago

This is just language policing, there is a myriad of large number of superflous unnecessary words in the English language. Many Plenty of them are of foreign origin descent, or as you like to refer to call them: exotic unfamiliar.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

This is the every square is a rectangle but not every rectangle is a square type thing. Umami is savory but not everything savory is umami. You need that meaty taste as well as a few other distinctions.

by Dry_Guitar2469 3 days ago

I would use savoury over not sweet, because savoury is more concise than not sweet, being a single word. We wouldn't say not wet over dry, or not warm over cold.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

So you don't know anything about cooking or linguistics?

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Yeah you're weong

by amiya53 3 days ago

Everybody weong chung tonight.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

It's literally one of the five scientifically recognized basic tastes.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Damned immigrants, taking our flavour profiles!! shakes sarcastic fist

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Is salty a redundant term? Sweet?

by Stan94 3 days ago

No, those are distinct tastes, not to be confused with each other. Umami and savory describe the same taste. They are synonymous.

by Anonymous 3 days ago

The only people I've ever heard use that term are smarmy dweebs

by Anonymous 3 days ago

Taste is just touch. All 5 basic senses are just touch.

by AdeptAd9735 3 days ago

I would certainly agree that the term has suffered from overuse in the last few years.

by Roxane96 2 days ago

OP you're dying on a factually incorrect hill 🥲

by Anonymous 2 days ago

I'm not sure I agree with this...but people do the same thing with "Picanha" which is the Brazilian translation of the cut of beef we know of as "Sirloin Cap".

by Anonymous 2 days ago

I've never heard people commonly describe food as being "savory" in America. To be fair, I don't run in particularly culinary circles, but I've definitely heard things described as sweet, sour, salty, tart, spicy, etc. thousands of times. It wasn't until I came to Korea and had to start translating words synonymous with "umami" into English that I really discovered "savory." Tl;dr: "Umami" is, if anything, replacing an underutilized English word that many people just plain aren't really familiar with. If you're a chef, or in the culinary world, none of this applies to you.

by Anonymous 2 days ago

All foods with umami are savory but not all savory foods have umami.

by lorenzkrajcik 2 days ago

We don't need a word for smell. It's too technical and really just describes a an electro-chemical process. We should just say "nose savory".

by humbertomoscisk 2 days ago

the most important use of umami is: "Are you a naturally occurring amino acid? Because UMAMI! ;)"

by Anonymous 2 days ago

I feel like you inadvertently made a great argument for using the term. Unami is a single and more elegant solution than saying "this tastes like msg".

by sipesthea 2 days ago

I don't think I can identify a deference between umami and savory either

by Old-Historian2122 2 days ago

Ah, yes, we have a word for it, we as in the whole entire world that speaks only one language

by Anonymous 2 days ago

Umami deez

by Rutherfordkavon 2 days ago

I HAVE NEVER FELT SO SEEN. I have been begging people to use the word savor for years.

by Sgoldner 2 days ago

The problem is savory doesn't really colloquially mean that. It kind of does or certainly can be used in that sense, but it never really attained that precise specific meaning in English. So when it was presented with this loan word, English adopted it. Plain and simple. Language doesn't operate on "Should." It just evolves with usage and that's the way this one gets used.

by Anonymous 2 days ago

That taste savory Do you mean savory the herb, or do you mean umami?

by Salt-Background 2 days ago

savory is a much broader term than umami. Umami is the "taste of glutamate" which is savory but rosemary is also savory, and not umami.

by Anonymous 2 days ago

Yeah, but umami bomb sounds so much better than savory bomb

by Horacefeest 2 days ago

None of this is necessary.

by Anonymous 2 days ago

I've been saying this for decades now lol.

by Anonymous 2 days ago

Umami can mean savory, yes, but its deeper than that. It really means when flavours come together in a highly pleasurable way. Orgasmic is even a better synonym than savory because if I recall correctly, it registers similarly in the brain. Source: chef and received knowledge from master chefs

by Anonymous 2 days ago

I am not fun at parties.

by Anonymous 2 days ago

Umami is used because it was literally the used by the person who made the discovery of the 5th taste. Savory is NOT synonymous with umami, savory is a very broad term that applies to anything that lacks sweetness. The reason umami is used is because it literally has no word in english that can be used in place of it... you can use many seperate words together to get close to what umami is, but no single english word can be used ACCURATELY in its place. As others have said, you are just wrong.

by Anonymous 2 days ago

Glad it was helpful, I would be interested in hearing what you've learned.

by Anonymous 2 days ago

Yeah and?

by Anonymous 2 days ago

Yep. This word already existed. It's fine to use it, I just don't get why people pretend like they're two separate concepts.

by Anonymous 2 days ago

It's crack for pedants. i jUST loVe the AMai FLAVOrS iNsIde MoChI (aMaI THE jaPanEsE WOrd For sweEt)

by rubye22 2 days ago

This guy gets it.

by Anonymous 2 days ago